cougar14
US Veteran
Their current ad says they now have a model approved for California. Curious what they did to get it on the list. Maybe S&W can do the same thing to a Governor.I e-mailed them, but got no reply.
Anyone have a Bond Arms derringer?
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Ivan the Butcher
Member
I have the predecessor to the Bond Arms (American Derringer) in 357 mag. Along with several other derringers, I found it to be almost impossible to get both barrels to group within 3" at 7 yards. The Bond style gun will group 2" at 7 yards (3 shots in each barrel) with 158 gr SWC HP 38 special +P in the top barrel and 110 grain STHP 357 mag in the bottom barrel. These are large and heavy derringers. The High Standard style in 22 LR or 22 Mag (The American Derringer Co. made a 38 special version too) seem to do better with factory ammo. Ivan
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I mean no disrespect to people who like them, but I'm genuinely curious. If a derringer is that large and heavy and carries only two rounds, what is its advantage over a five-shot J-frame in the same caliber?
And secondarily, how difficult is shooting .357 Magnum ammo from a derringer? I can no longer shoot magnum ammo at all due to arthritis, but it looks to me as if recoil would produce severe muzzle flip in one because of the grip design.
And secondarily, how difficult is shooting .357 Magnum ammo from a derringer? I can no longer shoot magnum ammo at all due to arthritis, but it looks to me as if recoil would produce severe muzzle flip in one because of the grip design.
GatorFarmer
Member
In California a handgun that fires .410 shells is an illegal sawed off shotgun, if memory serves. Thus the Governor, Judge, et al will remain forbidden.
I had a Bond in .45/.410, I considered it a snake gun.
I sold it some time back and now use a surplus flare gun with a .45/.410 insert.
I had a Bond in .45/.410, I considered it a snake gun.
I sold it some time back and now use a surplus flare gun with a .45/.410 insert.
Yep. I have one. It has the .38/.357 barrel. Shouldazagged is right. In my opinion, a derringer is just a novelty gun. Nothing more. Oh, I guess you could carry one as a concealed weapon...but why would you carry a derringer instead of a 5-shot J-frame like shouldazagged pointed out? It's just not practical.
I got one primarily because I was shooting SASS. Derringers have "style points." They look cool, but certainly aren't what you'd want in your pocket if you got confronted in the WalMart parking lot by five members of "The Screaming Blue Devils" demanding your wallet.
Now, when it comes to shooting a .357 magnum out of a derringer...it's kinda like getting your fingers slammed in the trunk of your car.
I own a Bond with several extra bbls. Difficult to criticize the Bond as it has many vocal adherents. Mine was originally a .45LC model. Too heavy. I removed the useless trigger guard. Still too heavy. I shipped it back to Bond and had them cut back the frame to the firm's "Mini" dimensions. At the same time, I ordered the snub .45LC bbl, all in the interest of shedding extra "pounds." Still too heavy. Boring, huh?
The weight does dampen recoil with big bore rounds, but 10 rounds or so is max, unless you're shooting .38s in the .357 bbl setup to judge POI. I understand the firm has reduced trigger pull on its more recent models. They're a great firm with nice folks who are very responsive and friendly on the phone, but the gun badly needs to lose at least another 4 ozs to be serviceable.
I'm a derringer fan, as well as a J-hound. I much prefer the American Derringer models, which are sufficiently light for pocket carry, and IMO, are more finely crafted. Derringers work well in those outer pockets that are too short even for a J-frame, and there are many such pockets.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
The weight does dampen recoil with big bore rounds, but 10 rounds or so is max, unless you're shooting .38s in the .357 bbl setup to judge POI. I understand the firm has reduced trigger pull on its more recent models. They're a great firm with nice folks who are very responsive and friendly on the phone, but the gun badly needs to lose at least another 4 ozs to be serviceable.
I'm a derringer fan, as well as a J-hound. I much prefer the American Derringer models, which are sufficiently light for pocket carry, and IMO, are more finely crafted. Derringers work well in those outer pockets that are too short even for a J-frame, and there are many such pockets.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
Marshwheeling
Member
A buddy ordered one in .45LC. It came with a .22lr barrel instead. I urged him to leave it thatway, but he sent the barrel back to the mfr. for the 'right' one, a no-cost exchange. Then he shot it in .45LC. Called the mfr. and ordered up a .22lr barrel, paying full retail for it.
I shot it when it was configured as a .45, and concur with his decision to go back to .22. In that caliber, it is a cute novelty gun. In anything more powerful, it is a complete waste of time. You can't hit anything with it anyway, so practice is not just unpleasant, but pointless.
I shot it when it was configured as a .45, and concur with his decision to go back to .22. In that caliber, it is a cute novelty gun. In anything more powerful, it is a complete waste of time. You can't hit anything with it anyway, so practice is not just unpleasant, but pointless.
Arik
Member
A buddy of mine had the 45LC/410. It was awesome!!!! We shot the snot out of it. Was pretty accurate too....at intended distances of course
Marshwheeling
Member
Well there ya go. Different strokes.
Frankly, I think some folks try to make the derringer something it's not. Forget about bulls-eye targets at 7 yards. It's for up close and personal, like 3-6 feet where there is no chance of missing and POI between the 2 bbls is meaningless. It is produced in big bore calibers because close-in, the caliber can't be big enough!
If you buy an American Derringer model, the instruction sheet is an eye opener. Derringers are an acquired taste. Those of us who favor them know how to best use them and work within their limitations.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
If you buy an American Derringer model, the instruction sheet is an eye opener. Derringers are an acquired taste. Those of us who favor them know how to best use them and work within their limitations.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
I have the Snake Slayer IV
.45 LC / .410 Barrel
And bought a second barrel in .357 for it.
And the "Driving Holster" --- wear it on your left hip with the butt facing forward. Draw with your right hand.
Superb quality & workmanship.
Made in USA.
Fun to shoot. But a novelty. I would not use it for self defense as a primary gun. The J-Frame is much easier for me to handle.
Snake Slayer IV - Bond Arms
.45 LC / .410 Barrel
And bought a second barrel in .357 for it.
And the "Driving Holster" --- wear it on your left hip with the butt facing forward. Draw with your right hand.
Superb quality & workmanship.
Made in USA.
Fun to shoot. But a novelty. I would not use it for self defense as a primary gun. The J-Frame is much easier for me to handle.
Snake Slayer IV - Bond Arms
John, gotta ask this one: if it's just a novelty, why did you buy the "Driving Holster?" To me that would indicate SD use.
Cordially,
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
GrayGhost99
Member
You haven't lived till you have watched a grown man break his thumb shooting a 41 magnum American derringer. Picked one up years ago with box at a show for 90 bucks. Guy took it apart and couldn't put it together again.
My dad wanted first shot out of it.
Fractured his thumb bone and broke a chunk of bone lose. Good times.
My dad wanted first shot out of it.
Fractured his thumb bone and broke a chunk of bone lose. Good times.
Well, I like the unusual. The gun was a "payment" for a side job I did a few years ago. Bought the driving holster because the gun needed an accessory. I did carry it around a bit around the farm. Probably shot less than 100 rounds of .45LC and .410 Shotshells...but shot it enough to know I prefer a J-Frame.
Later I bought a .357 Mag barrel. Why? Well, that's my favorite caliber !
sgt.207
Member
I had one in 45LC several years ago. Too heavy, not very accurate, and only two shots. Never carried it. Stuck with S&W 340PD and Glock 26.
kilo charlie
Member
The advantage, on my farm, is that 7 1/2 .410 shot is much more deadly on Copperheads, than .38 special rat shot.
To answer your 2nd question. You set up the firing mechanism so the bottom bbl fires first. The recoil on this bbl goes straight back into the hand. The muzzle flip on the upper bbl, you worry about later.
Kaaskop49
Shield #4103
If you want a better performing load for snakes with the .45/410 model, forget about 410 and use the 45 Colt shot capsule load. They keep the shot in a much better pattern than the 410. I've killed a couple of copper heads with mine. Also an interesting load is the 410 shell with 3 buckshot balls in it. I have no ideal how it performs but it looks nasty for a close range fight stopper.
.410 slug loads also work well. There is a Brenneke 2.5" slug load which has nearly the same pop as the W-W 3" slug loading. All slugs shoot from both bbls close to POI. Odd how slugs always seem to be ignored when discussing the .410 handguns which are on the market now.
Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
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