Anyone know Evaluators Limited Quantico ?

[bob in texas]

I ask because I am researching a pre 29 that was shipped to them June 12,1956 per Roy's letter. It left as a blue 6.5" with checkered goncalo alves target grips. At some point it was altered to a 5" nickel,and has has rosewood cokes now. But it does have some unsual markings under the grips (R-63,a 0 above the R and an N) left grip frame, the right grip frame has the following (an L,a 2 and a large 5 stamped over a small 6 by the grip pin).
I almost forgot the serial # S1652XX. Any information about these folks or insight to the markings would great.
Thanks in advance Bob

 

[JayCeeNC]

Evaluators, Ltd., was a gunshop near Quantico, VA, owned by retired USMC Gen. George Van Orden and his wife, Florence (Flora).
They sold a lot of guns to federal agents and military personnel in the area, and were big S&W distributors. Flora Van Orden was related to the President of S&W.
The shop is no longer in operation.

Here's an interesting story about the Van Ordens:
http://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/smedley_d_culver.pdf

 

[bob in texas]

Markings on pre 29

JayCeeNC thanks for the link, now maybe I can get some help as to the markings.
Bob

 

[29aholic]

Markings

JayCeeNC thanks for the link, now maybe I can get some help as to the markings.
Bob

Bob
your markings seem to indicate a trip back to the factory in 63 for refinishing. The R N indicates it was refinished to nickle, and it is a good possibility the factory fitted the 5" barrel. Unfortunately, work orders are next to impossible to get so one can only speculate, but I believe 1963 would have been in the era when H H Harris was having 5" guns made up.

Is your front sight still blue??? Pictures would be nice.

BTW
Welcome to the forum

 

[bob in texas]

The front sight is nickel with no insert,rear sight is white outline,I am not sure if the barrel is a replacement or if it was shortened, Smith & Wesson is centered on it and the serial number is the only marking in the ejector rod housing. All serial numbers match that I can see. I will take photos tomorrow and try to upload them.
Bob

 

[opoefc]

Curtis is correct. Take a good look at the R-63. It should be a digit instead of an R. Something like 8.63, which would be August 1863. ahowever if it's an R, it just means the stamper picked up the wrong stamp, it should be a digit. As he said the R N stands for refinish/Repair and Nickel. the stamps on the right grip frame are fitters/assemblers/inspectors stamps.

 

[29aholic]

Curtis is correct. Take a good look at the R-63. It should be a digit instead of an R. Something like 8.63, which would be August 1963. ahowever if it's an R, it just means the stamper picked up the wrong stamp, it should be a digit. As he said the R N stands for refinish/Repair and Nickel. the stamps on the right grip frame are fitters/assemblers/inspectors stamps.

Fixed it for you Ed

 

[n4zov]

Oh yes, I remember Evaluators Ltd very well! There is a Model 19 in my gun safe now that I bought from them in about 1966 or thereabouts. Nice folks to deal with.

 

[DeviceCat]

Evaluators, Ltd.

New to this forum.
I delt with Evaluators, Ltd. of Quantico, VA (actually Triangle, VA) in the late 1950's and into the late 60's. it was run by retired BGEN Van Orden (not sure of the spelling).

My first gun was a K-38 Combat Masterpiece.

Would love to talk about my experiences in Quantico and with Evaluators, ltd.

Robert L. Murphy
HMC, Retired

[email protected]

 

[Flora Van Orden]

My mom and dad were originators of Evaluators, Ltd., in Triangle. The old office has been torn down and all of the old records were either burned up or picked up by certain agencies. My mother, Flora Mitchell Van Orden, wife of Brig. Gen. George O. Van Orden, USMC, designed the S&W K-38, Combat Masterpiece, and took her drawing to Tiny Helwig at the main S&W offices. She wanted the barrel to be 4", with adjustable sights, to be used with a grip adapter and a spring loaded holster that would minimize the time expended on drawing. They are both dead now, and the only person who might be able to answer your question is my brother, George Mason Van Orden. a retired USMC Col. in VA, lifetime member of the NRA, writing something about the making of a national champion, which he was. He lives west of Richmond with his wife Rina and two puppies. If you google him, or give me your email address, I would send it to him.

 

[SDH]

Flora,
Thanks for joining us Flora. You will find a lot of interest in your parents business around here as our Mr. Jinks send us many research letters of guns shipped to Quantico, or Triangle, VA. As was this Chief Special revolver, the catalog and pamphlet.
Your Combat Masterpiece information is especially interesting as it is one of my favorite revolvers. Any other info, anecdotes or memories would be very welcome.
Steve Hughes

 

[Flora Van Orden]

Sorry, my mom was not related to the President of S&W; they were just close personal friends and business collaborators after she designed the S&W K-38 combat masterpiece. Her name was Flora Mason Mitchell Van Orden, not Florence, from Jarratt, Virginia and my dad born in Pensacola, was the son of Col. George Van Orden, who was on the board of 3 that chose the site of Quantico for the Marines and established the Marine Corps Institute.

I got the honor of being named the 3rd Flora in the family, after her mother, Flora Fleming Farley Mitchell. She taught over 2,000 FBI agents how to shoot, and helped correct the scores of many other thousands of shooters at the small office in Triangle, which has now been destroyed. I posted at another link that I now often stand on the foundation of the old Evaluators and remember how dedicated they were to saving their 'boys' lives when their M-16 would jam in combat conditions, wanting to supply them with Hoppes gun oil and going over every single weapon that was shipped out of there or sold in there, to make sure it was in perfect working condition. I am very proud of them; yes, I admire them both for their dedication and time spent. I would love for anyone who knew them to write to me, [email protected] and share their memories because they were so busy in the office my brother (a Col. in the MC by the same name) and I didn't get to know them very well.

 

[Bill Bates]

It to bad the records no longer exist. I would love to know who the original owner of my Model 19 was. I've not letter my 19 but the "Ready For Service... EVALUATED...Evaluators, Ltd. ... Quantico, Va" sticker on the box leads me to believe that is where it came from.

 

[Flora Van Orden]

Mr. Helstrom was on the phone on and off almost daily with my mom as she pursued the shipment dates to her customers with the zeal of a mother hen watching over her chicks. She believed in going to the top when it was a matter of life and death. She once showed me how her Burns Martin adjustable holster could be worn by a parachutist so it could be drawn from the back. A little Swiss Army knife like gadget had a compass on the top that also came from her ever creating mind, trying to keep her boys safe. The home that she and dad bought in Triangle next to where the office stood, is now needing some repairs, and if anyone has some extra time around Christmas time, and who knows about plumbing or carpentry, we'd (my eldest son Mason lives with me too and helps in ways he can) be happy to help by getting out of the way or doing what we can to help! I can hammer like crazy but can't lift. I'm handicapped because an xray tech pulled a plate out too fast and moved my sacroiliac out of position, and on Social Security ($640 a month) and I have lots of stories to share if there are some skilled muscles out there who have a little time on their hands! We wanted to turn the office into a museum, but the roof was too far gone and there was not enough money to save it. But, we have pictures.

 

[Flora Van Orden]

Every weapon that was evaluated by my mom had that sticker on it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

My mom and dad were originators of Evalators, Ltd., in Triangle. The old office has been torn down and all of the old records were either burned up or picked up by certain agencies. My mother, Flora Mitchell Van Orden, wife of Brig. Gen. George O. Van Orden, USMC, designed the S&W K-38, Combat Masterpiece, and took her drawing to Tiny Helwig at the main S&W offices. She wanted the barrel to be 4", with adjustable sights, to be used with a grip adapter and a spring loaded holster that would minimize the time expended on drawing. They are both dead now, and the only person who might be able to answer your question is my brother, George Mason Van Orden. a retired USMC Col. in VA, lifetime member of the NRA, writing something about the making of a national champion, which he was. He lives west of Richmond with his wife Rina and two puppies. If you google him, or give me your email address, I would send it to him.

I have never heard of your mother's involvement with the Combat Masterpiece, but I had read that your mother suggested the name of the then-new economy 357 Magnum, the "Highway Patrolman."

I wish you would post pictures of your parents or the store or whatever you have. We would all love to see such. I have done various searches on Google, to no effect, save the Model 19 seen in this thread and previously in other threads on this forum.

Nice to have you.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Ms. Van Orden, it's a real pleasure to see you on here. Thanks so much for passing along information on your esteemed parents and their business.
Many of us consider Evaluator's a unique company, frequented by spies, Federal agents, military heroes, and other secretive characters. If only the walls of that place could talk...
I seek out Evaluator's holsters and other paraphernalia. I own a couple of the "Quick Draw" rigs which I believe were designed at Evaluator's for consideration by the US military.
I bought a gun a few years back complete with the receipt signed by your mother. Here's a copy of it:

 

[Flora Van Orden]

If you knew my parents, would you share your memories with me, please?

 

[JayCeeNC]

Ma'am, I did not know your parents.
I may not have been clear, but the gun to which the above receipt belongs was bought by me as a used gun from a gentleman a couple of years ago. He was not the original owner, either, and he's younger than I. I was still in diapers when that gun was sold!

 

[turnerriver]

Is this the spring loaded holster your mother designed ?

Regards,
turnerriver