Anyone know why Colt backed out of the deal with Star to produce the Colt Pony ???

[shooboy]

Hi All, Picked up this little Star Starfire today, nice little hard to find .380 mini-looking 1911. This example is in very nice condition. Anyway, back in the day, from what I've read, Colt had a deal with Star to build these as the Colt Pony. And for some reason, Colt never went ahead with the deal. I guess about 100 of these had sequential Colt serial numbers and Colt stamping, but after that they were all Stars, and later were made or picked up by Garcia and Iver Johnson. Anyone really know why Colt backed out of the deal ? This gun appears to be very well made and I just don't get it. Your thoughts ??? Thanks, Shoo

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Didn't Colt build the Mustang series itself, or was that a totally different gun? They look similar.


Bullseye

 

[m1gunner]

About the same time Colt was going to import the Star model 30M with their name on it (Colt didn't have a high cap 9mm of their own at that time). There were a lot of changes going on at that time. Some were import restrictions and the main item (IMHO) was Colt was going through some major corporate changes.

Many projects at Colt were dropped, and the focus was aimed at Gov't and police contracts. The Pony, the 30M and their multi-caliber DS derivative were casualties of the reorganization, among others.

 

[shooboy]

Hey Bullseye, This is about all the info I could find:
"In the middle 1970s, Colt decided to offer a .380 auto, and chose to partner with Star instead of making their very own gun. The gun (to be called the Pony) was to be assembled in the US, presumably by Colt, from a Star DK slide & associated internals, with a U.S. made frame.

However, the fixed lanyard loop (to increase height of the gun) and the adjustable sights are typical of features added to get points for the 1968 Gun Control Act, which placed restrictions on importation of small handguns. This may indicate that the guns would be entirely made in Spain after all, and just imported with different markings.

Iver Johnson
For some reason, after this product was announced, the Colt/Star partnership was dissolved and very few Colt-branded guns seem to have been sold. Iver Johnson bought the U.S. manufacturing rights to the gun, and sold a number of them. Apparently quite a few frames were made in anticipation of the Colt deal, as all the early Johnson serial numbers start with "CPA" (Colt Pony Automatic). It is also possible that some slides were made in the U.S. by Iver Johnson (some manufacturing marks and methods vary), but all the small parts were Spanish imports by Star. Iver Johnson also made at least one commemorative edition based on the Model D Pony, for a US Border Patrol anniversary in 1994; these all have "USBP" serial number prefixes.

This gun was also sold under the Starfire name, though I am unclear if this was a pure Star pistol with the requisite modifications to be allowed under CGA '68 or was simply another brand under the Iver Johnson banner.

The Iver Johnson pistols have a slightly different frame shape, with a longer "beavertail" to keep the hammer from biting the shooter. The hammer is of the spur type, as a result of the guarding. The sights are smaller and the rear is micrometer adjustable, in contrast to the high visibility combat sights of the Star DK."

Shoo

 

[bobcat]

"for a US Border Patrol anniversary in 1994; these all have "USBP" serial number prefixes."

I've got one of these, I bought 2, the most we could order when I was in the Patrol. Gave one to my dad, and I kept the other one. I can't bring myself to shoot it, they have coco bolo grips and came in a Badger case with the BP badge laser engraved on top, nice guns.

Take care...

 

[2152hq]

Firearms International was the STAR importer in the USA up until 1972. and most all the DK's were imported by them. Some by independent dealers though. STAR decided to slap the STARLIGHT designation on the pistols destined for the US market. Those marketed in the rest of the world didn't have that rolled onto the slides.

GCA68 stoped FA International (and anyone else) from importing the DK as it didn't meet the needed points for same. I think it was a system of 75 needed for importation.
In about '72 Firearms Inter. decided to import several thousand parts for the DK into the US,,no frames,,. F/A Int then fit some of those STAR parts to a frame made here in the US (FAI based company or an independednt contractor,,depends on who you believe). The frames are investment cast and have a fixed lanyard loop. The magazine bases are different from the STAR product and the grips were wood with F/I medallions inset.
FI took 50 of these guns to Colt and hoped to interest them in making the pistol a 'Colt' product. Colt said they were interested and requested additional pistols,,had roll dies made to mark the pistols and Colt gave chromed grip medallions to FI to put into the grips in place of the FI medallions.
Ser#'s started at CPA 001001.
There's 2 different slide legends even within the small lot of Colt sample pistols. Not every ser# was apparently used . I don't recall how far the #'s go on the guns Colt actually bought and sold.

Colt backed out of the deal because though they initial liked the small 380, they felt that a soon to come revision in the GCA68 would make the pistol unmarketable and they would be stuck with them and a big loss in investment.

Colt returned the remaining sample pistols to FI when the deal was not closed.

FI continued to produce to at least CPA 100000.
Some of the early FI production done after the break with Colt show pistols with the Colt slide legend ground off and a Firearms International logo replacing it. Those are the sample pistols returned by Colt.

IJ picked up the gun in the late 70's and sold it as the X300 Pony.

 

[Texas Star]

Firearms International was the STAR importer in the USA up until 1972. and most all the DK's were imported by them. Some by independent dealers though. STAR decided to slap the STARLIGHT designation on the pistols destined for the US market. Those marketed in the rest of the world didn't have that rolled onto the slides.

GCA68 stoped FA International (and anyone else) from importing the DK as it didn't meet the needed points for same. I think it was a system of 75 needed for importation.
In about '72 Firearms Inter. decided to import several thousand parts for the DK into the US,,no frames,,. F/A Int then fit some of those STAR parts to a frame made here in the US (FAI based company or an independednt contractor,,depends on who you believe). The frames are investment cast and have a fixed lanyard loop. The magazine bases are different from the STAR product and the grips were wood with F/I medallions inset.
FI took 50 of these guns to Colt and hoped to interest them in making the pistol a 'Colt' product. Colt said they were interested and requested additional pistols,,had roll dies made to mark the pistols and Colt gave chromed grip medallions to FI to put into the grips in place of the FI medallions.
Ser#'s started at CPA 001001.
There's 2 different slide legends even within the small lot of Colt sample pistols. Not every ser# was apparently used . I don't recall how far the #'s go on the guns Colt actually bought and sold.

Colt backed out of the deal because though they initial liked the small 380, they felt that a soon to come revision in the GCA68 would make the pistol unmarketable and they would be stuck with them and a big loss in investment.

Colt returned the remaining sample pistols to FI when the deal was not closed.

FI continued to produce to at least CPA 100000.
Some of the early FI production done after the break with Colt show pistols with the Colt slide legend ground off and a Firearms International logo replacing it. Those are the sample pistols returned by Colt.

IJ picked up the gun in the late 70's and sold it as the X300 Pony.

Thanks! Were both steel and light alloy used in frames, or only the latter? One reason why I never bought one was that I saw only a few, with aluminum frames, and didn't trust them.

T-Star

 

[LouisianaJoe]

I have a Mustang Plus II. Was this made by Colt? I think that they started making this model in 1988.

 

[2152hq]

Any STAR mfg pistol with a 'K' letter in it's model designation means it has an aluminum frame.

AFAIK,,all of the Firearms International/Colt pistols made up in the USA with domesticly mfg frames and STAR parts were steel framed guns. It's entirely possible that F/I experimented with an alloy frame as they were in control of the mfg of the frames here.

The STAR imports were Model DK 'Starfire' (The Starfire designation was for US imports only.
These were .380cal pistols.

After GCA68, and not importable into the USA (about 1972) STAR re-engineered some of the parts on the DK and the new pistol was called the DKL. The model so marked on the bottom of the frame at the mag well as usual.

About the same time they brought the same design out in caliber 32acp and designated that pistol as the Model DKI.
(STAR pistols in 32acp have generally been a Model 'I' designation through out the companys history with a few exceptions).

Neither the DKL or the DKI have been legal for importation because of GCA68. They were made up to the late 80's by STAR and sold else were in the world.
Less than 8K DKI were made IIRC.

The Firearms International marketing of the domesticly made frame/Star parts pistol was a designation of "Model 'D' 380" pistol both in F/I and Garcia literature. Garcia Corp bought out F/I around the time of the Colt venture.
Some ad literature shows both names on it. They may have used other Model designations too, I don't know.

I had a STAR DK Starfire back in the early 70's and it was a great carry piece. I did find it quite a handful in recoil but to be expected with it's small frame and light weight. Reliable with FMJ,,not so with HP though. One I probably should have kept. But a like new 1966 mfg PPK in 22LR got my attention instead.

 

[shooboy]

Wow, thanks to all you guys for the great information. My example is indeed a Star Starfire in .380ACP, Model DK on the bottom by the mag well. I plan on putting a few rounds through it to try it out. I paid $300 for it so I think I did okay. Should be fun. Thanks again, Shoo

 

[max]

I have a Llama 380 that is very similar, if not identical to the Star. Llama also made the gun in .22.

 

[shooboy]

Thanks to 2152hq I was able to find my proof marks, under the right grip panel, with a date code of N1 which puts this at 1968 manufacture. Here's a couple more pics if anyone is interested, thanks again to all of you, Shoo

 

[2152hq]

Very nice condition.
Mine was about like that when purchased,,,wasn't like that when I sold it though!

IIRC, the DK has a firing pin the same as most all other STAR pistol models of the time.
Meaning they are not the inertia type like a Colt 1911.
When the hammer is down all the way, and resting on the firing pin,, the front/point of the pin extends from the face of the breech in an unloaded pistol,,or on the primer of a cartridge in a loaded chamber.

Carrying a pistol set up like that with a round in the chamber and the hammer down is dangerous. A dropped pistol or a bump to the hammer will usually result in a discharge.
Just as dangerous as carrying an original design Colt SAA with the hammer down on a loaded round.

It's been so long I really don't recall if the condition exists with the DK (I suspect it does),,but check it out before trusting the system.
Take the slide right off and do a visual check by simple pressing the firing pin flush with the slide at the rear and checking the breech face.
You'll know for sure in a few seconds either way.

The safety is supposed to slightly cam the hammer off of the sear when applied. You should be able to see the hammer being cammed back slightly.
It drops back onto the sear when the safety is taken off.

You should be able to engage the safety with your thumb only,,and NOT have to manualy draw the hammer to the rear slightly at the same time to allow the safety to engage.
Many STAR semiautos with slightly worn parts or mis-fitted/enhanced parts, need that extra motion to engage the safety. It should not be needed.
I've seen some near new looking pistols not working correctly too.

I would not trust the thin half cock safety on the hammer for a 'round in the chamber' carry. It wasn't meant to be a carry safety.


Now you have to go looking for one of the Bright Blue or Gold annodized frame DK's. I think they offered other colors too.