Apex gun Smith barrel worth it?

[RobHazmat]

It would be installed on my EDC. Also, do they make apex barrels for the 4.25inch 2.0? Or does it not matter? Please useful information only. I don't want to know about other brands or what barrel you put in your pistol. Just want to know about the apex barrels.

 

[Mike in Reedley]

One of my sons gave me an M&P CORE in 9 mm and accuracy was pedestrian at best. I installed Apex's fitted barrel and accuracy improved significantly. I also have Apex's target trigger in it, which is too light for duty, but works well in Steel Challenge. Well worth the money for me.

 

[RobHazmat]

One of my sons gave me an M&P CORE in 9 mm and accuracy was pedestrian at best. I installed Apex's fitted barrel and accuracy improved significantly. I also have Apex's target trigger in it, which is too light for duty, but works well in Steel Challenge. Well worth the money for me.

I have an apex flatty installed with around a 5lb break. My groups will be center mass at 20yards but even rested they aren't great groups. Maybe I'll look into it. I can't seem to find the gunsmith fit models in stock anywhere. I can only find the semi drop ins

 

[RobHazmat]

Just pulled the trigger on an apex gunsmith fit 4.25in barrel from Ridgelineshooting. It was the last one they had in stock. Hopefully I can find a competent gunsmith in Michigan to do the fitting for it.

 

[Ribwizzard]

Have you had a gunsmith measure the accuracy of the pistol ? I've heard that the highest the apex will measure is a 8.7 fgrk, most stock barrels are measuring between 8.1 -8.4 fgrk, but some have measured quite higher. I'd go to a gunsmith that has a garnier device and measure both your stock barrel and the new apex barrel and see if there is a substantial difference before committing

 

[CB3]

My extended, threaded Apex gunsmith fit barrel test target from Apex on my 4.25" FS 9mm:

I also have a 5.25# Dc package with a FF trigger. EDC. Perfect.

 

[Real Old Navy]

Ribwizzard...please enlighten ME as to what fgrk means and what a Ganier Device is? If RobHazmat is OK with using his thread to learn something. Is it OK with you...Buddy?

 

[CB3]

Have you had a gunsmith measure the accuracy of the pistol ? I've heard that the highest the apex will measure is a 8.7 fgrk, most stock barrels are measuring between 8.1 -8.4 fgrk, but some have measured quite higher. I'd go to a gunsmith that has a garnier device and measure both your stock barrel and the new apex barrel and see if there is a substantial difference before committing

What is "fgrk" please?

We have had numerous threads here about Apex Barrels, including comments from Randy Lee (Mr. Apex S&W) about how he overcame average accuracy from OEM barrels.

I have two FS M&P 9mm 4.25" guns. Neither is a 2.0. Since my guns are for carry, I sight them in at 10 yards. My first gun shooting rested would do about a 2.5" group with 115 grn fmj. The GSF Apex barrel improved that to under 0.5" shot from a Ransom Rest at Apex. That's amazing. Well worth it to me.

However, my second gun with the OEM barrel shoots under an inch with me resting it at the range, so I am very happy with that. Both guns have Apex Flat Faced Triggers with the Duty/Carry package.

Some folks have bought the Apex drop in barrels and not had as stellar results as with the GSF, but still improved over their OEM barrel. At least one other forum member fit his GSF barrel himself, got some improvement but not as he hoped. Apex got on the 'net and phone with him and helped him work through the process. Their on-line tutorial is very good, but I believe properly fitting a barrel to very small tolerances takes experience and is somewhat of an art to wring out maximum performance.

My Apex GSF barrel is tight but completely reliable. I have over 2500 rounds through it with no problems. It replaced a Storm Lake Drop In barrel the only advantage of which was extended threading. No accuracy improvement.

I have read the lockup on 2.0 barrels is improved, but with a mass manufactured gun there will always be an acceptable range of quick fit tolerance. You might be able to feel between different samples in a store to get the tightest one, but some barrels will be pushing high tolerance limits, and others low.

Randy has it nailed to wring out maximum accuracy potential. Using a local gunsmith may give improved results but not maximum potential. There are numerous interrelated areas that must balance each other, done in order. That's why I had Apex fit my barrel and test it in the Ransom rest.

 

[ScaryWoody]

I'd replace the trigger system before the barrel. It's a EDC not a target pistol.

 

[Wee Hooker]

I personanally see little value in adding a higher tollerance barrel to an EDC gun where reliabilility and not pinpoint accuracy is the goal.
Different story for range/target guns alltogeather.

 

[RobHazmat]

I'd replace the trigger system before the barrel. It's a EDC not a target pistol.

What's wrong with my trigger? 5lb break seems plenty acceptable for EDC. I've fired about 5k rounds through it since having it installed. I'm ok with my trigger.

 

[RobHazmat]

I personanally see little value in adding a higher tollerance barrel to an EDC gun where reliabilility and not pinpoint accuracy is the goal.
Different story for range/target guns alltogeather.

No reason not to want a little bit of both. From what I've read, after being fitted and broken in, no one seems to have reliability issues. And if I do, then I just pop the factory barrel in no harm no foul.

 

[RobHazmat]

My extended, threaded Apex gunsmith fit barrel test target from Apex on my 4.25" FS 9mm:

I also have a 5.25# Dc package with a FF trigger. EDC. Perfect.

That's awesome. Thanks for your post! I just pulled the trigger on buying one last night

 

[RobHazmat]

What is "fgrk" please?

We have had numerous threads here about Apex Barrels, including comments from Randy Lee (Mr. Apex S&W) about how he overcame average accuracy from OEM barrels.

I have two FS M&P 9mm 4.25" guns. Neither is a 2.0. Since my guns are for carry, I sight them in at 10 yards. My first gun shooting rested would do about a 2.5" group with 115 grn fmj. The GSF Apex barrel improved that to under 0.5" shot from a Ransom Rest at Apex. That's amazing. Well worth it to me.

However, my second gun with the OEM barrel shoots under an inch with me resting it at the range, so I am very happy with that. Both guns have Apex Flat Faced Triggers with the Duty/Carry package.

Some folks have bought the Apex drop in barrels and not had as stellar results as with the GSF, but still improved over their OEM barrel. At least one other forum member fit his GSF barrel himself, got some improvement but not as he hoped. Apex got on the 'net and phone with him and helped him work through the process. Their on-line tutorial is very good, but I believe properly fitting a barrel to very small tolerances takes experience and is somewhat of an art to wring out maximum performance.

My Apex GSF barrel is tight but completely reliable. I have over 2500 rounds through it with no problems. It replaced a Storm Lake Drop In barrel the only advantage of which was extended threading. No accuracy improvement.

I have read the lockup on 2.0 barrels is improved, but with a mass manufactured gun there will always be an acceptable range of quick fit tolerance. You might be able to feel between different samples in a store to get the tightest one, but some barrels will be pushing high tolerance limits, and others low.

Randy has it nailed to wring out maximum accuracy potential. Using a local gunsmith may give improved results but not maximum potential. There are numerous interrelated areas that must balance each other, done in order. That's why I had Apex fit my barrel and test it in the Ransom rest.

Thank you for all of the information. Very helpful. I hope I have the same success with my GSF Barrel from them. How much did the fitting cost?

 

[crracer_712]

I have two FS M&P 9mm 4.25" guns. Neither is a 2.0. Since my guns are for carry, I sight them in at 10 yards. My first gun shooting rested would do about a 2.5" group with 115 grn fmj. The GSF Apex barrel improved that to under 0.5" shot from a Ransom Rest at Apex. That's amazing. Well worth it to me.

Isn't that kinda apples and oranges? Apex in a ransom rest, OEM wasn't??

 

[Ranger17]

Just curious; but have those who swapped in aftermarket barrels seen any improvement in a regular stand/ hold position for accuracy?

I get where using a rest can show variations and comparions better between barrels, but I was wondering how it may translate in a more normal usage situation.

Again just curious. Thx!

 

[CB3]

Isn't that kinda apples and oranges? Apex in a ransom rest, OEM wasn't??

I do not personally have access to a Ransom rest, so let's just say for the sake of argument that the Apex target (date 2.1.17) shows the actual mechanical potential accuracy of the gun now. As most are aware, the groups are significantly more difficult to achieve, mechanically, as they get smaller.

I don't have a target saved of the OEM barrel. People will just have to take my word for it that my 10 yard rested groups were 2+". That's the first apple.

So I got a drop in Storm Lake barrel. Here is the best target I ever shot with it, rested. One and 3/8". Second apple. I put that barrel back in my gun after I got it back from Apex to make a direct apples to apples comparison shooting the following three targets on the same day:

Here is a rested target, same gun and shooter, after installing the Apex GSF barrel. Apples to apples, 1/2 the group size of the Storm Lake barrel, and 1/4 the size of the OEM barrel.

Here's another rested target with my carry ammo. Obviously my horizontal spread is due to my human error, although the vertical spread is the same as the Apex Ransom rest target. Even at 0.8" it is just over half the size of the SL barrel. And it is 10 shots, not five.

How do you like them apples?

 

[RobHazmat]

I do not personally have access to a Ransom rest, so let's just say for the sake of argument that the Apex target (date 2.1.17) shows the actual mechanical potential accuracy of the gun now. As most are aware, the groups are significantly more difficult to achieve, mechanically, as they get smaller.

I don't have a target saved of the OEM barrel. People will just have to take my word for it that my 10 yard rested groups were 2+". That's the first apple.

So I got a drop in Storm Lake barrel. Here is the best target I ever shot with it, rested. One and 3/8". Second apple. I put that barrel back in my gun after I got it back from Apex to make a direct apples to apples comparison shooting the following three targets on the same day:

Here is a rested target, same gun and shooter, after installing the Apex GSF barrel. Apples to apples, 1/2 the group size of the Storm Lake barrel, and 1/4 the size of the OEM barrel.

Here's another rested target with my carry ammo. Obviously my horizontal spread is due to my human error, although the vertical spread is the same as the Apex Ransom rest target. Even at 0.8" it is just over half the size of the SL barrel. And it is 10 shots, not five.

How do you like them apples?

That is crazy awesome. Makes me feel better about my purchase. How much did Apex charge to fit your barrel?

 

[CB3]

Just curious; but have those who swapped in aftermarket barrels seen any improvement in a regular stand/ hold position for accuracy?

I get where using a rest can show variations and comparions better between barrels, but I was wondering how it may translate in a more normal usage situation.

Again just curious. Thx!

Short answer, yes, I have seen improvements in my groups shooting unrested.

The last class I attended, a 5-hour drawing from the holster certification class for the indoor range I go to in the winter, the instructor wanted to gauge attendees' marksmanship before getting into drawing-shooting—moving.

At the close range of about 10', he had us shoot our best effort, slow fire group of five shots. All five of mine were touching, a ragged hole of about 1.25". We repeated the exercise. My hole enlarged to about 1.5" but now had pretty even edges. The third and final five shots did not change my target at all.

While I have had this gun and barrel for About two years and probably put a couple thousand rounds through it, I had never done a 15-round exercise like this before. I was quite surprised. Without any corroborating proof, I seriously doubt I could have done that with my OEM barrel.

In general, my fast shooting spreads are tighter than they used to be. Part of this may be an increased confidence in the gun's innate accuracy, leaving no doubt that when a group sucks I messed up. I am confident my shooting has improved because the gun holds me to a higher standard. There are no excuses based on gun or ammo.

 

[CB3]

That is crazy awesome. Makes me feel better about my purchase. How much did Apex charge to fit your barrel?

$125, and worth every penny, especially since they went through the gun and their installed fire control components and got everything working like a Swiss watch.

 

[RobHazmat]

$125, and worth every penny, especially since they went through the gun and their installed fire control components and got everything working like a Swiss watch.

Gorgeous firearm man. I'll be having it installed in a m&p9 2.0. won't be sporting a red dot though. What was the turnaround time on it? Did you ship just the slide or the whole firearm?

 

[CB3]

My turn around time was almost 4 weeks, but I cheated. I took the whole gun to them on my way to Phoenix. They need the frame and the slide to fit the barrel, and of course to work on the trigger components a little.

They did not really like that I just showed up at their facility, at least the office staff didn't at first, but when shop people came out their typically wonderful customer service kicked in. My gun was put in the queu, and I received it at home in the mail just short of four weeks later with their test target.

 

[RobHazmat]

My turn around time was almost 4 weeks, but I cheated. I took the whole gun to them on my way to Phoenix. They need the frame and the slide to fit the barrel, and of course to work on the trigger components a little.

They did not really like that I just showed up at their facility, at least the office staff didn't at first, but when shop people came out their typically wonderful customer service kicked in. My gun was put in the queu, and I received it at home in the mail just short of four weeks later with their test target.

So I can probably expect double that amount of time if I have to ship it to them. Oh well, it'll be worth it.

 

[RobHazmat]

My turn around time was almost 4 weeks, but I cheated. I took the whole gun to them on my way to Phoenix. They need the frame and the slide to fit the barrel, and of course to work on the trigger components a little.

They did not really like that I just showed up at their facility, at least the office staff didn't at first, but when shop people came out their typically wonderful customer service kicked in. My gun was put in the queu, and I received it at home in the mail just short of four weeks later with their test target.

Also thanks again for all of your input on this thread. Very informative. I really appreciate it.

 

[crracer_712]

@CB3, I understood you to not have a ransom rest for factory barrel. Having one would have made a difference. I don't doubt your Apex is more accurate, but I doubt you'll be carrying one around with you. It's nice to know it has the ability to group well though.

 

[CB3]

@CB3, I understood you to not have a ransom rest for factory barrel. Having one would have made a difference. I don't doubt your Apex is more accurate, but I doubt you'll be carrying one around with you. It's nice to know it has the ability to group well though.

Thank you. I appreciate your helpful input.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

... I understood you to not have a ransom rest for factory barrel. Having one would have made a difference. I don't doubt your Apex is more accurate, but I doubt you'll be carrying one around with you.

LOL!!

A lot of folks talk about Ransom Rest results, but continue to ignore the fact that what happens when the gun is in your hand is very important.

 

[crracer_712]

LOL!!

A lot of folks talk about Ransom Rest results, but continue to ignore the fact that what happens when the gun is in your hand is very important.

I get the desire to see how accurate it can shoot. But locked in a ransom rest is far different from holding one on a rock junior.

I might try this some time, the rock junior that is.

 

[Randy Lee]

The reality is that very few can extract the kind of "mechanical and repeatable" accuracy that a Ransom Rest provides. That being said, I know first hand that some of the very top competitive shooters in the world have shot groups off hand and prone at 35 and 50 yards under an inch with our barrels.

All things being equal, as long as functional reliability is not compromised, I like the peace of mind that the gun I shoot is as accurate as my human ability to shoot it.

 

[RobHazmat]

The reality is that very few can extract the kind of "mechanical and repeatable" accuracy that a Ransom Rest provides. That being said, I know first hand that some of the very top competitive shooters in the world have shot groups off hand and prone at 35 and 50 yards under an inch with our barrels.

All things being equal, as long as functional reliability is not compromised, I like the peace of mind that the gun I shoot is as accurate as my human ability to shoot it.

This is kind of my sentiment exactly. If the gun can't perform accurately on a ransom rest, how am I supposed to be effective with it when I have tons of human error to accommodate for? I ordered a gunsmith fit barrel, hopefully my local guy can fit it. If I'm not confident in him I'll just send it to Apex.