WilliamB
Member
I'm just wondering if anyone has had the chance to install the new RAM. The trigger reset mechanism. If so how do you like it?
Apex RAM
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chuck s
Member
Mine in is the mail.
There's a video on how the device works on their website. It does not help trigger reset as far as pushing the trigger forward, but adds side force to snap the trigger bar under the sear more forcefully. Looks like a 5 minute install but you need a roll pin punch to get the firing mechanism out of the frame and back in.
-- Chuck
There's a video on how the device works on their website. It does not help trigger reset as far as pushing the trigger forward, but adds side force to snap the trigger bar under the sear more forcefully. Looks like a 5 minute install but you need a roll pin punch to get the firing mechanism out of the frame and back in.
-- Chuck
chuck s
Member
I installed the RAM kit last night and while the reset is a bit more noticeable it's not a striking change.
I was expecting (and hoping) the Apex RAM would make a striking difference, but it doesn't. Different sure, but there's no "Wow!" factor at all.
I was rather expecting a "Clack" rather than a slightly louder "click" and slightly more positive finger feel. I have a Burwell tuned trigger in mine, though, not a stock trigger.
Installation was very simple even for my first time pulling the fire control parts out of my M&P9.
-- Chuck
I was expecting (and hoping) the Apex RAM would make a striking difference, but it doesn't. Different sure, but there's no "Wow!" factor at all.
I was rather expecting a "Clack" rather than a slightly louder "click" and slightly more positive finger feel. I have a Burwell tuned trigger in mine, though, not a stock trigger.
Installation was very simple even for my first time pulling the fire control parts out of my M&P9.
-- Chuck
missiondude
Member
I got to try one a few weeks ago before they came out. It was noticeably different, although everyones threshold of wow is different. It was different enough that I plan on getting one sometime in the near future. My M&P has the Apex hardsear and FPB.
hberttmank
Member
I put mine in tonight, took about ten minutes to install in my M&P 9 Pro. Quite a change in my pistol, the reset is much more distinct. I had previously installed the Apex sear, striker block and competition spring kit. I can't wait to try it out tomorrow.
chuck s
Member
My trigger is neither stock nor Apex so that may be why I'm not "Wowed" by the RAM device. Helpful, but not "Wow." Perhaps a stronger spring would help?
Dan Burwell performed his trigger magic on my M&P9 in the late spring of 2009. The internal polish and smooth surfaces are apparent. Wonderful 4.58 pound trigger weight with no change in trigger pull length. Burwell trigger; Bowie sights; trigger finger index point added to right side of frame.
-- Chuck
Dan Burwell performed his trigger magic on my M&P9 in the late spring of 2009. The internal polish and smooth surfaces are apparent. Wonderful 4.58 pound trigger weight with no change in trigger pull length. Burwell trigger; Bowie sights; trigger finger index point added to right side of frame.
-- Chuck
hberttmank
Member
Well, I put 150 rds thru it today, with no problems at all. The reset feels as distinct as a Glock to me, and that's not a bad thing.
I just installed two RAMs into my compact and full size, both with the DCAK installed. While there is a definite improvement, I will say it is not quite Glock like. Both of my Glocks, a 21 and a 19, have very noticeable resets, probably more than any other pistol I use.
The RAM does create a more noticeable tactile reset point, and also creates a much more audible click at reset. I think the audible click definitely helps in the overall perception of reset as I dry fired both units, I am curious to see if this also holds true for live fire drills.
Overall, I am happy with the RAM, as I am happy with the DCAK units. I would recommend them to others who are interested in relatively low effort improvement to the trigger on the M&P series pistols.
The RAM does create a more noticeable tactile reset point, and also creates a much more audible click at reset. I think the audible click definitely helps in the overall perception of reset as I dry fired both units, I am curious to see if this also holds true for live fire drills.
Overall, I am happy with the RAM, as I am happy with the DCAK units. I would recommend them to others who are interested in relatively low effort improvement to the trigger on the M&P series pistols.
firebirdude
US Veteran
I'm confused. What is the RAM kit versus the "hard sear"?
Apex Tactical Hard Sear S&W M&P 9mm Luger, 357 Sig, 40 S&W Steel - MidwayUSA
*EDIT*
Ok I see the difference between the two, but I guess I don't know how they work together.
More importantly, before I go purchasing two of the same thing.... the full DCAK kit INCLUDES the hard sear? Does it include the RAM too? Or how would the full DCAK kit work with the RAM too?
Mainly, I'm looking to solidify the trigger reset. I cannot feel it at all while shooting. I would buy just the hard sear, but if the entire kit is only 40 bucks more then why not..haha
Apex Tactical Hard Sear S&W M&P 9mm Luger, 357 Sig, 40 S&W Steel - MidwayUSA
*EDIT*
Ok I see the difference between the two, but I guess I don't know how they work together.
More importantly, before I go purchasing two of the same thing.... the full DCAK kit INCLUDES the hard sear? Does it include the RAM too? Or how would the full DCAK kit work with the RAM too?
Mainly, I'm looking to solidify the trigger reset. I cannot feel it at all while shooting. I would buy just the hard sear, but if the entire kit is only 40 bucks more then why not..haha
Last edited:
chuck s
Member
As near as I can determine the hard sear has nothing to do with the reset sound or feel.
Field strip your M&P pistol and watch what happens during trigger reset. The trigger bar slides forward then snaps to the left to get back under the sear. The only thing supplying any energy is the trigger spring. Making the trigger spring stronger will improve the reset, but also increases trigger pull. (You're gonna have to press on the disconnector to get the trigger to reset.)
The RAM adds a spring to the system that wasn't there before and uses it to force the trigger bar over under the sear (in conjunction with the trigger spring). Only applies sideways force so it doesn't affect trigger weight. The RAM uses an existing hole in the fire control assembly that is also used by the safety. If present. Good time to remove it.
-- Chuck
Field strip your M&P pistol and watch what happens during trigger reset. The trigger bar slides forward then snaps to the left to get back under the sear. The only thing supplying any energy is the trigger spring. Making the trigger spring stronger will improve the reset, but also increases trigger pull. (You're gonna have to press on the disconnector to get the trigger to reset.)
The RAM adds a spring to the system that wasn't there before and uses it to force the trigger bar over under the sear (in conjunction with the trigger spring). Only applies sideways force so it doesn't affect trigger weight. The RAM uses an existing hole in the fire control assembly that is also used by the safety. If present. Good time to remove it.
-- Chuck
firebirdude
US Veteran
Thanks for your reply. It mentions:
"The modified geometry will not only improve the over-travel and sear reset characteristics, but will also dramatically reduce the trigger pull weight in most pistols."
So I suppose I assumed I would feel the sear reset more. Don't know what other reset characteristics one could want...
"The modified geometry will not only improve the over-travel and sear reset characteristics, but will also dramatically reduce the trigger pull weight in most pistols."
So I suppose I assumed I would feel the sear reset more. Don't know what other reset characteristics one could want...
SMMAssociates
Member
firebirdude:
The DCAEK kit includes the "Hard Sear"....
The original idea was to use the rest of the kit to mix & match springs for the best feel for you and to supply a much improved drop safety plunger. The latter is moved by the top of the trigger bar during firing and the original (at best) retards the trigger bar a bit.
Installation is pretty easy if you're into stuff like this. The sear spring included for the older style sear block is microscopic though. Really fun.... Otherwise just follow the instructions on the video. Look at things carefully if you've not had the thing apart first
....
If you have one of the newer sear blocks you'll use an included larger spring. (If you have the older block and want the upgrade Apex will do it for you. About $20 for their customers - including shipping - or about $50 for non-customers - again including shipping.) IMHO if you have the Compact or a high round count you want the upgrade....
The RAM kit can be installed with the DCAEK (just a little easier to do everything at once) but it's about as easy as swapping a magazine that's pinned into the gun
.... The current RAM will NOT work if you have a Hilary Lock and want to keep it OR with a thumb safety. Apex is working on a RAM for the latter.
I wasn't here and I didn't say this but if you have a Hilary Lock toss it.... Then the RAM kit will work....
The RAM does help the trigger reset a little. I have to be honest and say that I can barely feel it. Seems to me it's a YMMV thing but cheap enough to try. (I think that some tolerance issues in the guns may affect how much help it actually gives.)
I know I've said this before.... The DCAEK kit makes my M&P's feel like my late 60's S&W wheelguns. Even their bottom level Model 10 had about the best trigger you ever could buy off the shelf in those days and I've got two examples - an M10HB and a Model 19. The latter was a "premium" gun at the time at $135! (The M10HB was $65 with a Police discount.)
Buy two - they're small....
Regards
The DCAEK kit includes the "Hard Sear"....
The original idea was to use the rest of the kit to mix & match springs for the best feel for you and to supply a much improved drop safety plunger. The latter is moved by the top of the trigger bar during firing and the original (at best) retards the trigger bar a bit.
Installation is pretty easy if you're into stuff like this. The sear spring included for the older style sear block is microscopic though. Really fun.... Otherwise just follow the instructions on the video. Look at things carefully if you've not had the thing apart first
....If you have one of the newer sear blocks you'll use an included larger spring. (If you have the older block and want the upgrade Apex will do it for you. About $20 for their customers - including shipping - or about $50 for non-customers - again including shipping.) IMHO if you have the Compact or a high round count you want the upgrade....
The RAM kit can be installed with the DCAEK (just a little easier to do everything at once) but it's about as easy as swapping a magazine that's pinned into the gun
.... The current RAM will NOT work if you have a Hilary Lock and want to keep it OR with a thumb safety. Apex is working on a RAM for the latter. I wasn't here and I didn't say this but if you have a Hilary Lock toss it.... Then the RAM kit will work
....The RAM does help the trigger reset a little. I have to be honest and say that I can barely feel it. Seems to me it's a YMMV thing but cheap enough to try. (I think that some tolerance issues in the guns may affect how much help it actually gives.)
I know I've said this before.... The DCAEK kit makes my M&P's feel like my late 60's S&W wheelguns. Even their bottom level Model 10 had about the best trigger you ever could buy off the shelf in those days and I've got two examples - an M10HB and a Model 19. The latter was a "premium" gun at the time at $135! (The M10HB was $65 with a Police discount.)
Buy two - they're small
....Regards
7shooter
Member
I put the RAM in my M&P 9 yesterday and was unimpressed when I dry fired it . I then took it to the range and put 50 rounds through it and was quite impressed. I could feel a distinctly improved reset which enabled faster followup shots. I have the other Apex competition parts in the gun. Not sure why it didn't seem better when dry firing. Highly recommend !
Flork
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Does your gun have a Magazine Safety? If so, that would explain why you have little to no reset while dry firing.
Scott @ Apex
I must have gotten lucky with my M&P9 / Apex DCAEK in that the reset in my M&P9 after installing the kit is rather distinct and consistent. It's not quite as pronounced as the reset on a Glock trigger but there's no missing it - very tactile. Likely a result of tolerances stacked in my favor. Either way there's no reason for me to consider installing the Apex RAM in my M&P9 at this point as I would not wan't anything to change. Given my very positive experience with the Apex DCAE kit I'll definitely give it a go should the reset becomes less distinct for any reason.
Apex is a pleasure to do business with and the DCAEK is an outstanding product!
Apex is a pleasure to do business with and the DCAEK is an outstanding product!
Last edited:
7shooter
Member
I doesn't have a mag safety. Thanks for the information. Great product.
Flork
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7,
Ok, in that case, I'd like to make sure you're checking the reset properly.
The check the reset under dry fire conditions, follow these steps:
1) check the gun is completely unloaded
2) double check the gun is completely unloaded
3) Dryfire a shot and keep your trigger finger pinned to the rear.
4) with your weak hand grab the slide, pull it all the way back to cycle the action and let it forward....while keeping your finger on the trigger.
5) slowly release the trigger until you feel the click of the reset.
You'll feel the sharp snap of the trigger bar re-engaging the sear.
I've had a lot of customers take their finger off the trigger when they cycle the slide while testing the reset, thus completely eliminating the felt reset.
Scott
Ok, in that case, I'd like to make sure you're checking the reset properly.
The check the reset under dry fire conditions, follow these steps:
1) check the gun is completely unloaded
2) double check the gun is completely unloaded
3) Dryfire a shot and keep your trigger finger pinned to the rear.
4) with your weak hand grab the slide, pull it all the way back to cycle the action and let it forward....while keeping your finger on the trigger.
5) slowly release the trigger until you feel the click of the reset.
You'll feel the sharp snap of the trigger bar re-engaging the sear.
I've had a lot of customers take their finger off the trigger when they cycle the slide while testing the reset, thus completely eliminating the felt reset.
Scott
chuck s
Member
My RAM reset, as noted previously (several times) isn't impressive, but it's not worth removing as it is a tiny bit better. No where near as nice as my primary carry M1911.
Any thoughts of a stronger RAM spring?
-- Chuck
Any thoughts of a stronger RAM spring?
-- Chuck
Flork
Member
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Chuck,
Making the spring heavier didn't seem to make much of a difference. The one thing I have noticed is that if the loop on the trigger bar isn't completely square(lined up with the trigger bar extension when looking at it from the top) the reset can be deadened.
The presence of a magazine safety can also reduce the RAM's positive effect while dry firing, unless you have a magazine in.
Scott
Making the spring heavier didn't seem to make much of a difference. The one thing I have noticed is that if the loop on the trigger bar isn't completely square(lined up with the trigger bar extension when looking at it from the top) the reset can be deadened.
The presence of a magazine safety can also reduce the RAM's positive effect while dry firing, unless you have a magazine in.
Scott
chuck s
Member
Thanks, I'll just run her as she is.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
7shooter
Member
I'm going to check my gun and see if the loop is completely square. I had my gunsmith put it in but since no instructions came with it he said he wasn't certain he put it in right. After seeing the installation video I think I can check this myself.
7shooter
Member
I took it apart and made certain the notch was square . It worked. The reset is more audible when dry firing. I'll let my gunsmith know about how to put the part in correctly.
SMMAssociates
Member
jackrabbit000:
I'm too lazy (well, asleep) to go look, but I don't think it'd matter. Can't say for the Pro series, though, but I would look at the profile of the drop safety plunger - if it's sort of squarish across the top (Apex's is somewhat rounded, and slightly higher in the center), it might make sense to at least swap that. I'd try the sear, too, just for the heck of it. A "mix & match" approach seems to be a good idea for some guns.
My brain is telling me that the loop is doing all the work, and that the tip of the bar is just a "guide". I don't think you'd get any appreciable wear there. Unless Scott & Randy are doing a hot business in trigger bars....
Regards,
I'm too lazy (well, asleep) to go look, but I don't think it'd matter. Can't say for the Pro series, though, but I would look at the profile of the drop safety plunger - if it's sort of squarish across the top (Apex's is somewhat rounded, and slightly higher in the center), it might make sense to at least swap that. I'd try the sear, too, just for the heck of it. A "mix & match" approach seems to be a good idea for some guns.
My brain is telling me that the loop is doing all the work, and that the tip of the bar is just a "guide". I don't think you'd get any appreciable wear there. Unless Scott & Randy are doing a hot business in trigger bars
....Regards,
Flork
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So far, we haven't seen any appreciable wear on the trigger bars from use of the RAM. The material hardness spec of the RAM matches the trigger bar, so you get two equally hard parts rubbing on one another, which produces little to no wear.
Scott @ Apex
Scott @ Apex
SMMAssociates
Member
Scott:
Did I miss something? I thought that all of the sear blocks that didn't include the thumb safety took the same RAM, although the Hilary Lock often has to be removed....
(Is the one for thumb safeties available yet?)
Regards,
Did I miss something? I thought that all of the sear blocks that didn't include the thumb safety took the same RAM, although the Hilary Lock often has to be removed....
(Is the one for thumb safeties available yet?)
Regards,
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