Apex sear in my M&P Shield 9mm

[Dad_Roman]

Installed one last night. Got a good 1.5 out of it, cant wait to shoot it. Dropped from 6.5 to 5

 

[kmanick]

so is S&W in cahoots with APEX? there is no reason in the world S&W cannot make their trigger parts on par with Apex.
Reminds me of how Ibanez guitars ship with crappy dimarzio pickups .
Everyone swaps out the stock pickups.
I find this extremely annoying. The trigger on my XDM 3.8C destroys the triggers on my shield and my 9C and those have both been reworked.
I seriously doubt S&W hires completely incompetent employees.
I can only come to the conclusion that these shabby triggers are produced like this on purpose.
A good friend of mine just picked up an XDS 3.3 in 9. right out of the box it shot better than my shield does (with over a 1,000 rounds through it and a reworked trigger).

 

[Dad_Roman]

Well...good question. For all I know they may even be a satellite company

I love my FS XDM too. Beautiful trigger action on it.

Course....I paid 2-3 times what I gave for a Shield.

 

[Shield9mm]

A good friend of mine just picked up an XDS 3.3 in 9. right out of the box it shot better than my shield does (with over a 1,000 rounds through it and a reworked trigger).

The only gun that I've had with worse trigger than the shield is the XDS, what a horrible thing mushy, spongy, awful trigger, had a 45, and 9mm both 3.3 most people installed the PRP spring kit on it. I even sent mine to XDman to get it fixed.

My only complain with the shield9 was the grittiness and heavy pull, but apex took care of that. My shield 45 is nothing like the 9mm, it is nice clean and crisp, I guess S&W listened.

 

[Dad_Roman]

I have to admit that mammas Shield9 has been good from the get go. Little heavy at 6.5 but clean and crisp. I think we must have got lucky.

The new 9 and the 2 - 45's seem about the same. No real complaint.

Swapped out mammas sear so now I have a S&W sear to work some majic on

 

[kmanick]

The only gun that I've had with worse trigger than the shield is the XDS, what a horrible thing mushy, spongy, awful trigger, had a 45, and 9mm both 3.3 most people installed the PRP spring kit on it. I even sent mine to XDman to get it fixed.

My only complain with the shield9 was the grittiness and heavy pull, but apex took care of that. My shield 45 is nothing like the 9mm, it is nice clean and crisp, I guess S&W listened.

I hope so because I have mags/holsters etc invested in my shield and my 9C (which I love).
Hmmmm surprised to hear that about the XDS you shot, i was quite surprised by his, it wasn't as good as my XDM trigger but was not even close to the horrid mass trigger my shield came with.

 

[Shield9mm]

Hmmmm surprised to hear that about the XDS you shot, i was quite surprised by his, it wasn't as good as my XDM trigger but was not even close to the horrid mass trigger my shield came with.

yup it is all over at XDtalk, the XDM is awesome had a 3.8 9mm and a 4.5 9mm which I still miss a lot. tried to replace it with the M&P pro even tried the core still not as good as the XDM.

 

[Dad_Roman]

Dropped the Apex shear in mammas Shield9.

Remarkable difference. Awesome at the range. 6.5 to 5.

Saweeeeet

 

[Farmer17]

My local gun store has about 25 pistols on pedestals with wires tied to the trigger guards and you can pick up and handle the guns and try the triggers. The two Springfield XDs were the worst of the bunch, there are about 4 Glocks and their triggers are all different and range from bad to O.K. The Smith M&P's are heavier but nice and the Shields are a little bit better, the FN was nicer and the HK was really nice and the Walther PPQ was dang sweet and easily the best of all the striker guns. I think S&W likes their guns to have a little heavier pull for liability purposes which I can understand on the guns without a thumb safety but the pistols with a manual safety should have a nice, light trigger like a Kimber or Springfield 1911.

 

[Flash_80]

I'd have to agree, though then they might put the aftermarket guys out of business. My PPQ has a great trigger. But not as great as my M&P 40 with the Apex FSS. I've spent a lot of money on a lot of stuff I needed or didn't need but wanted, or maybe just thought that I needed.. but that Apex kit fell into that category of fully satisfied no regrets.

 

[flyingbrass]

My 9mm Shield came in last week (my first tupperware pistol -- couldn't resist the price after rebate), and I put in an Apex sear today.

I guess I was lucky. I expected a horrible factory trigger. After a little dry firing and with a small dab of grease on the factory sear the trigger pull averaged 5 lb. 6 oz. If I hadn't already ordered an Apex sear before the pistol arrived I might have just done some minor work on the original.

The Apex (sear only, factory springs) reduced trigger pull to an average of 3 lb. 14 oz., so right at 1.5 lb. reduction.

The trigger bar loop gap from the factory was .024", which left the trigger break and reset out a bit farther than necessary even with the Apex sear. I took the gap down to .016", which still left about .110" of overtravel measured rear of the trigger at the top (held punches behind the trigger). I wouldn't want it in much closer, and the existing amount of overtravel is tolerable.

While I had it apart I fixed the horribly stiff manual safety. I didn't do any major reshaping, just broke sharp edges and a light polish on the safety and plunger. I cleaned all the gunk out of the plunger channel. Much better now. I still may have to build up the lever a little with Acraglas.

The striker block and tunnel could use cleaning up, but after reading about how stubborn rear sights on Shields are I think I'll just let it be. The roughness isn't noticeable during shooting and doesn't seem to harm the actual trigger break. Maybe it will smooth out in time.

I fired 100 rounds of lead reloads yesterday without a hitch except for sore thumbs and fingers from loading the magazines. Those springs sure are stout. I'm looking forward to shooting next weekend with the improved trigger.

 

[greeenteeee]

Strong first post! Curious for more info on the trigger bar loop to reduce overtravel. By gap, are you talking about the loop to the sear when trigger is not depressed? Did you reshape the trigger bar loop?

 

[Dad_Roman]

The trigger bar loop gap from the factory was .024", which left the trigger break and reset out a bit farther than necessary even with the Apex sear. I took the gap down to .016", which still left about .110" of overtravel measured rear of the trigger at the top (held punches behind the trigger).

Im curious about this too.

 

[flyingbrass]

Strong first post! Curious for more info on the trigger bar loop to reduce overtravel. By gap, are you talking about the loop to the sear when trigger is not depressed? Did you reshape the trigger bar loop?

I'm talking about the gap measured with a feeler gauge at the end of the loop on the trigger bar that engages the nub on the sear. I used smooth jaw pliers to close it slightly.

Closing the loop moves the trigger break rearward. So, in effect, with a stock trigger you have less overtravel but more takeup. If the loop is closed too far, the trigger will stop before the sear releases. If open too far, the sear can release before the trigger bar is rearward enough to fully deactivate the striker block.

There is a Youtube video by Apex showing how to adjust the loop. They recommend small increments. [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMLv_JaoSkU[/ame]

 

[greeenteeee]

I'm talking about the gap measured with a feeler gauge at the end of the loop on the trigger bar that engages the nub on the sear. I used smooth jaw pliers to close it slightly.

Closing the loop moves the trigger break rearward. So, in effect, with a stock trigger you have less overtravel but more takeup. If the loop is closed too far, the trigger will stop before the sear releases. If open too far, the sear can release before the trigger bar is rearward enough to fully deactivate the striker block.

There is a Youtube video by Apex showing how to adjust the loop. They recommend small increments. Trigger Bar Loop Adjustment - YouTube

Thank you. I'm intrigued by how much can be changed on this platform. I really need to get a trigger pull measurement and learn into all the measurements for pre and post data.

 

[REARSPROCKET]

I used an M&P Pro factory sear in my Shield and the trigger is very nice. The Pro sear is the same as a Performance Center sear. S&W adds a heavier sear spring under it to bring weight up a little. A lot of people set up their Pros for competition and install Apex sears, so there are a lot of new take out sears to be found. I tried an Apex 063 and it was very nice but too light for carry from just under 4lbs to just over.

 

[greeenteeee]

The trigger bar loop gap from the factory was .024", which left the trigger break and reset out a bit farther than necessary even with the Apex sear. I took the gap down to .016", which still left about .110" of overtravel measured rear of the trigger at the top (held punches behind the trigger). I wouldn't want it in much closer, and the existing amount of overtravel is tolerable.

Just installed the sear on my standard Shield 9 and have a PC to compare.

PC9 at 200 rounds at 5# 15.1oz
Shield 9 before (485 rounds, decent dry fire): 6# 10.4oz.
Shield 9 after Apex Sear 100-063: 5# 3.2oz. (dropped 1# 7.2oz)

While I was in there, I messed with the trigger bar: 0.021" stock, widened it to 0.028" then closed it to 0.016" but over-travel was still at 2-3mm (used a punch behind the notch on the trigger), similar to the PC's overtravel.

I'm going to double check my values later on but the PC has the longest take up and the least sear movement. 5mm reset in the Apex'd Shield vs 4.75mm in the PC.

I used an M&P Pro factory sear in my Shield and the trigger is very nice. The Pro sear is the same as a Performance Center sear. S&W adds a heavier sear spring under it to bring weight up a little. A lot of people set up their Pros for competition and install Apex sears, so there are a lot of new take out sears to be found. I tried an Apex 063 and it was very nice but too light for carry from just under 4lbs to just over.

The heavier spring is the one under the cap that is under the sear right? I may have to look for a stock non performance center spring to try in my PC9.

 

[walleyeb1]

opposite here

My 9mm Shield came in last week (my first tupperware pistol -- couldn't resist the price after rebate), and I put in an Apex sear today.

I guess I was lucky. I expected a horrible factory trigger. After a little dry firing and with a small dab of grease on the factory sear the trigger pull averaged 5 lb. 6 oz. If I hadn't already ordered an Apex sear before the pistol arrived I might have just done some minor work on the original.

The Apex (sear only, factory springs) reduced trigger pull to an average of 3 lb. 14 oz., so right at 1.5 lb. reduction.

The trigger bar loop gap from the factory was .024", which left the trigger break and reset out a bit farther than necessary even with the Apex sear. I took the gap down to .016", which still left about .110" of overtravel measured rear of the trigger at the top (held punches behind the trigger). I wouldn't want it in much closer, and the existing amount of overtravel is tolerable.

While I had it apart I fixed the horribly stiff manual safety. I didn't do any major reshaping, just broke sharp edges and a light polish on the safety and plunger. I cleaned all the gunk out of the plunger channel. Much better now. I still may have to build up the lever a little with Acraglas.

The striker block and tunnel could use cleaning up, but after reading about how stubborn rear sights on Shields are I think I'll just let it be. The roughness isn't noticeable during shooting and doesn't seem to harm the actual trigger break. Maybe it will smooth out in time.

I fired 100 rounds of lead reloads yesterday without a hitch except for sore thumbs and fingers from loading the magazines. Those springs sure are stout. I'm looking forward to shooting next weekend with the improved trigger.

I went the opposite way I opened the shepherd hook up a touch to reduce the trigger take-up, also polished the top of the hook that engages with the sear. I was more concerned with a smooth crisp trigger pull than the reset. Just an individual preference.

 

[greeenteeee]

I went the opposite way I opened the shepherd hook up a touch to reduce the trigger take-up, also polished the top of the hook that engages with the sear. I was more concerned with a smooth crisp trigger pull than the reset. Just an individual preference.

Nice. Happen to take before/after measurements with a feeler gauge? If you reduced take-up, how did it affect the reset point?

Something like this-- I'm just curious how it'd affect things. I marked it up with the standard sear but didn't use fine point so it was moot.

The marks from left to right indicate the points:
(BLUE) starting point, trigger safety, sear mvmt begins, break, to overtravel.
(RED) is the reset point.

EDIT: The top is a standard Shield with the Apex Sear (100-063) with the trigger bar loop closed a little IIRC. The bottom is a performance center Shield, unmodified.

 

[Will41]

The only reason that I have never used Apex parts is because I am not crazy about increasing the pretravel. I like it where it is but it would be nice to have an improved trigger.