Apex Trigger is "Mushy" at the end

[ThaDoubleJ]

A few years back I picked up a BNIB first generation M&P in 357 Sig, small sear plunger, no stupid white letters on the slide. Since it's a range toy, I put an Apex trigger (the $40 one) in it out of curiosity, and then changed the small plunger sear block to the newer, larger one, per Apex' recommendation.

The other evening, my brother and I were talking guns, and got out my M&Ps, the above 357 and my first gen, bendy trigger, small plunger, never failed me HD gun in 9mm. We were doing some dry firing, and noticed that although the Apex trigger has a lighter release, it also has a very mushy release, right at the end, almost like something is bending or deflecting. The stock 9mm has a heavier, but very crisp break, for tupperware at least.

Is this normal for Apex triggers? Did I maybe do something wrong during the install? Gun is 100% functional, never had a hiccup since day 1. Neither has the 9mm for that matter.

While I'm on the subject, opinions on that Apex tactical reset doodad? I noticed that both M&Ps have basically no indication of reset, it's completely smooth and silent.

 

[Cheapskait]

I think the no discernible reset triggers were changed due to customer suggestions and experience with the reset in the Shield trigger in 2013.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

I'd say both of mine are from around 05 or 06. I remember getting my 9mm for $399 as the XD or some other competing pistol was being released, and S&W wanted to get the M&P to market in a hurry. Had plenty of problems with it too, seems that QC wasn't so good while they were hurrying them out like that.

 

[Smakmauz]

regarding the apex action enhancement trigger, depends on the gun and which sear is in it and how well the trigger bar is adjusted. it sounds like you have the old sear and all the old components that have since been updated.

I would really recommend you get the apex sear and look into how to adjust the trigger bar loop. basically if you adjust the trigger bar loop to a more closed position it will decrease the trigger over travel and this will make your trigger press feel less and less mushy in the back end.

Also, in regards to reset... you need to get the new trigger bar version known as the "S" trigger bar and get the new version of the slide stop lever. these two peices will make your reset much more prominent. you should be able to get them direct from smith...they may even just give them to you.

I don't have any experience with the apex RAM but I do know you have to have the proper sear block for it to work with. you have to have the block with the spot for the trigger lock in it.

EDIT: for anyone reading this the newest trigger bar is actually the "H". I kept getting the 2 mixed as I corrected myself later in the thread.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

I'll give S&W a holler at some point and see if they'll supply those parts. They've been a little weird lately though...

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Sent an email to S&W, see what they say. Midway has the trigger and bar for 17 bones, Apex sear is 40, and there's a gunsmith fit version as well.

 

[presspics]

Trigger reset on an M&P is very easy to adjust for a nice click and feel. It takes just a slight adjustment to the trigger bar. As for your mushy pull, it sounds like overtravel and that is easily adjusted by closing the loop on the trigger bar. In all honesty, I don't use any APEX parts. I cut the sears myself and adjust the trigger bars myself to get exactly what I want.

 

[wolverine]

regarding the apex action enhancement trigger, depends on the gun and which sear is in it and how well the trigger bar is adjusted. it sounds like you have the old sear and all the old components that have since been updated.

I would really recommend you get the apex sear and look into how to adjust the trigger bar loop. basically if you adjust the trigger bar loop to a more closed position it will decrease the trigger over travel and this will make your trigger press feel less and less mushy in the back end.

Also, in regards to reset... you need to get the new trigger bar version known as the "S" trigger bar and get the new version of the slide stop lever. these two peices will make your reset much more prominent. you should be able to get them direct from smith...they may even just give them to you.

I don't have any experience with the apex RAM but I do know you have to have the proper sear block for it to work with. you have to have the block with the spot for the trigger lock in it.

I have an older M&P with early Apex sear parts. Same mushy feel as you are explaining.

At one time it bothered me but I really don't feel it while shooting the gun, just feel it during dry fire. In fact I forgot all about it until you posted here.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

S&W got back to me. They won't sell me the parts, they're "factory install only", but for $120, they'll install a fancy sear, polish the hood and feed ramp, and make a couple tweaks to the internals. Sounds like a Midway order is about due, and I'll check back for instructions on adjusting that loop.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

regarding the apex action enhancement trigger, depends on the gun and which sear is in it and how well the trigger bar is adjusted. it sounds like you have the old sear and all the old components that have since been updated.

I would really recommend you get the apex sear and look into how to adjust the trigger bar loop. basically if you adjust the trigger bar loop to a more closed position it will decrease the trigger over travel and this will make your trigger press feel less and less mushy in the back end.

Also, in regards to reset... you need to get the new trigger bar version known as the "S" trigger bar and get the new version of the slide stop lever. these two peices will make your reset much more prominent. you should be able to get them direct from smith...they may even just give them to you.

I don't have any experience with the apex RAM but I do know you have to have the proper sear block for it to work with. you have to have the block with the spot for the trigger lock in it.

I'm curious, how does the slide stop lever interface with the trigger that it will change the reset characteristics? It's 18 bucks at Midway, no big deal, but although I prefer the M&P 10-1 over my G33 and G20, I'm much more familiar with the Gs as I've fiddled with them more (20 is a range toy, so fiddling doesn't endanger me). Other than swap in a factory threaded barrel, my 9mm (bedside gun) M&P is bone stock.

 

[Smakmauz]

I'm curious, how does the slide stop lever interface with the trigger that it will change the reset characteristics? It's 18 bucks at Midway, no big deal, but although I prefer the M&P 10-1 over my G33 and G20, I'm much more familiar with the Gs as I've fiddled with them more (20 is a range toy, so fiddling doesn't endanger me). Other than swap in a factory threaded barrel, my 9mm (bedside gun) M&P is bone stock.

On the new slide stop, there is a little nub that sticks out on the ejection port side that basically puts pressure on the trigger bar pushing it slightly towards the sear block. When you release the trigger to reset it basically acts like a spring that just makes the trigger bar smack the sear housing. And that's what gives you the more audible and tactile click. The newly designed trigger bar is just a bit beefier than the old one to increase the mass so you feel it more on reset.

I hope that makes sense..kinda hard to explain in just words. I usually prefer pointing and grunting

G&R tactical used to be a good source for these new parts but it seems they are getting out of that business. Speed shooter supply doesn't seem to stock the newer style slide stop levers. They do usually have the trigger bars but for whatever reason they have chosen to only stock the old style stop lever. Brownells might be a good source too.

 

[Smakmauz]

Here's a link to the newest generation slide stop lever on brownells: SMITH & WESSON M&P SLIDE STOP ASSEMBLY, GEN 3 | Brownells

Here's the right trigger bar: Trigger Bar Assembly "S" : SMITH & WESSON TRIGGER BAR ASSEMBLY "S" | Brownells

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Thanks Smak. Reading through the reviews on the trigger bar, people are complaining that it's an "s" instead of the newest "H" marked bar. Any idea which is which? Wonder if there's a FAQ on all this somewhere.

 

[Smakmauz]

"S" is the newest trigger bar that's a little beefier. That's supposed to be the one that's in that link in the previous message. Sounds like they might have gotten some bad order fulfilment or mixed up inventory. Last review came in over a year ago so hopefully they've sorted it out by now. The product description specifically says "S" so I would think it's good.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Any idea what an H marked bar is? The reviewers at Brownells claim it's even newer than the S.

 

[Smakmauz]

Damn man, I'm sorry, I got them mixed up again. It is the H bar that is the newer one. There isn't a huge difference between them I guess but none the less the newer one is the one marked "H". I had to look at my own guns again after googling it and sure enough...

That's not the first time I've done that. Brownells has the one marked H in the description as well. Here: SMITH & WESSON M&P TRIGGER BAR ASSEMBLY, "H" | Brownells

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Ok, so if I've got a 7 month old sear block with the big plunger and spring and Apex poly trigger, then I get the new Gen 3 slide stop and an Apex sear, would I want to pair that with an S or H trigger bar?

 

[Smakmauz]

You want the H bar. And this time I'm sure.

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Just ordered the parts, I'll update after I get them in

 

[ThaDoubleJ]

Well that didn't work. The trigger bar will not stay in the sear block, when pulling the trigger, I have to smack the pistol on the right side to get the striker to release. I've driven the rear pin out and reinstalled it about 1100 times now, I have to admit defeat. Ideas? Oh, when the striker fails to release, the slide stop also fails stop the slide with an empty mag inserted, they rub on each other. Trigger working, slide stop begins to work again as well.