AR Forward Assist?
- Thread starter JordonC2
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nawilson
US Veteran
It is designed to assist the bolt carrier go into battery when the rifle is dirty. When performing Immediate Action after a malfunction (aka SPORTS), it is what you tap. Clear as mud?
Gunslinger808
Member
Makes sure that if your rifle wasn't jammed before, it is now!
It is a device permitting the operator to make a bad situation even worse by forcing a defective round into the chamber, and possibly locking up the bolt carrier, turning a predicament simply requiring extraction of the faulty round into a catastrophe requiring time, tools, and maybe more than two hands to remedy! If a round doesn't want to feed in the first place, beating on it with the forward assist is only likely to exacerbate the situation.
It's been argued that it may have some utility in a circumstance where noise discipline is an issue, and that easing the bolt carrier forward in the interest of keeping quiet may require an "assist" to chamber a round and bring the gun into battery, but that seems a stretch to me...
It's been argued that it may have some utility in a circumstance where noise discipline is an issue, and that easing the bolt carrier forward in the interest of keeping quiet may require an "assist" to chamber a round and bring the gun into battery, but that seems a stretch to me...
Grjfer
US Veteran
The smith and wesson sport is missing the forward assist handle as well as the dust cover as an effort to reduce cost.
retarmyaviator
US Veteran
You have to go back into the history of the M16 to really learn why there is a FA on ARs. As originally designed the M16 did not have one but was added later in an effort to solve the problems experienced in VN. Is it still needed, probably not but ...
JaPes
Member
JordanC2,
I'm an AR newbie. I've asked the same question & received several answers. The common theme to the credible replies and my research gives me the following info. Our fellow S&W Forum members with more experience with the AR platform will chime in and correct anything this newbie got wrong.
The forward assist (FA) can give an uninitiated, new to the AR platform owner a tool to get into trouble. When a round does not successfully feed, there are a myriad of possible causes from out of spec ammo to a mechanical issue.
A new AR owner doesn't have the practical experience to immediately diagnose the issue and determine whether or not employing the FA will solve the problem or make it worse.
A FA isn't meant to be pushed on forcefully. I'm told all it takes is a little nudge. If the round won't chamber with that nudge, it's better to eject the cartridge and try to feed a fresh cartridge.
Ham-fisting a FA when a round won't chamber can cause a serious jam and/or damage.
If you take a look at an AR bolt carrier, when installed in the upper receiver, you'll see that it has a scallop (see red arrows).
Eugene Stoner, the creator of the AR platform, designed the bolt carrier with that scallop for the express purpose of using your finger to nudge a bolt into battery. The FA was not a part of the original design. The FA was added later.
(I suspect John McNamera & his bean counters insisted a FA would save a few bucks on ammo during the Vietnam War era. I haven't had a chance to fully research.)
So which one should you buy? That's up to how you handle a situation when a bolt won't fully seat into battery. If you have the discipline to properly employ a FA and don't think of it as a cure-all, then go get an AR with a FA.
If you're on a budget and understand you can nudge a bolt into battery using your finger & the scallop on the bolt carrier, then a S&W M&P 15-Sport will do the trick.
The topic of the necessity of a dust cover is a different ball of wax altogether. Use some common sense as to what the intended function of a dust cover is, and put it into context of where you plan to shoot & under what conditions.
The key is that no matter what others opinions are, you take in all the credible information you can get and make an informed choice.
Here is a link to a decent test review of the S&W M&P 15-Sport.
Gun Review: Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport | The Truth About Guns
I own a 15-Sport. No FA. No dust cover. I have 300rds of the least expensive Russian steel case .223 through it. It's run perfect. I haven't had to nudge an out of battery bolt into battery.
I just completed a budget build. Delaware Machinery stripped lower, standard lower parts build kit, and a 14.5" RGuns complete 5.56 upper. It has a FA & dust cover. I'm testing it at the range tomorrow.
Good luck with your choice!
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JaPes
Member
True. An added benefit of the omission of a FA & dust cover is weight reduction.
The M&P 15-Sport isn't the first "budget" AR to omit the FA & dust cover. Check out the DPMS Sportical. Not only does it omit the FA & dust cover, it also omits the brass deflector nub at the rear of the ejection port.
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rojodiablo
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The removal of all the stuff off the sides of the AR harkens back tot he original AR15 developed for the Air Force for pilots. It was commonly known as a 'Slickside'. Theory was, it would not hang up when being pulled out of the cockpit. They were stored in the ejection seat somewhere, and the pilot was to use it for getting out of trouble, or killing dinner if necessary. I do not know if in the older jets the pilot separated from the seat, and the rifle was attached to him, or if he was supposed to grab it and hang on, but that is what was.
JaPes, great post.
JaPes
Member
Thanks for the additional bit of info. I thought that the AR-7 .22lr was the survival weapon issued to pilots.
I've had the itch for a Henry Survival rifle for a while. It's just not high on the "want to get" list.
Sorry but wrong. The AR was not bought by the Air Force for flight use, it was to replace the M2 Carbine for base security. This was a decision made by Curtiss LeMay after being invited to a BBQ that just happened to include an M16 and a couple of watermelons. At the time all weapon testing and procurement was supposed to be done by Army Ordnance. Ordnance had just adopted the M14 after years of testing and had no interest in any new fangled rifle. Then along came the Kennedy administration and McNamara, Ordnance was told they would test the M16 and later as Nam spun up that there would be a one time buy for Special Forces Advisers and ARVN troops to use in country. So Ordnance tested the rifle and it did OK but they came up with a list of “improvements” one of which was the forward assist. Reason being that while not needed every rifle ever issued by the U.S. Army had a manual bolt closure and if we have to take this black thing we don’t want, even for limited issue, it will have a manual bolt closure device. And that is how the forward assist came into existence, it is not really needed, can turn a small FTF in a major jam, added parts and costs but Big Army got their way. And of course that "one time buy" grew into general issue and here we are today still using that danged black rifle.
JaPes
Member
^ Thanks for the quick history lesson. It's piqued my curiosity. I'll spend some time at my local library & read this weekend.
Lots of names that I know, some that I don't. Time to fill in the gaps in background knowledge.
Lots of names that I know, some that I don't. Time to fill in the gaps in background knowledge.
JordanC2,
If you take a look at an AR bolt carrier, when installed in the upper receiver, you'll see that it has a scallop (see red arrows).
Eugene Stoner, the creator of the AR platform, designed the bolt carrier with that scallop for the express purpose of using your finger to nudge a bolt into battery.
Sorry Charlie, the scallop is meant to allow the dust cover to close and then to be opened by the bolt travel.
retarmyaviator
US Veteran
Pick up a copy of The Black Rifle by Stevens and Ezell, it will answer all your questions about the history of the FA.
TangoFoxtrot
US Veteran
The foward assist is a panic button for those who do not know how to seat their bolt or clear a jam under pressure. So the operator proceeds to rap the hell out of it and make the situaition worse....hence the "panic button"
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crracer_712
Member
I just got one because it looks cool...
rojodiablo
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Mack, the model I am referring to is the model 601 ar15. Originally deployed, the improvements you are talking about (FA, and shell deflector, magwell rim being beefed up) came after operational issues. The 601 was picked up by AF and used for some time, even after the 602 came out with a slickside and was subsequently the first series which got the FA upgrade, and then later the shell deflector. There are 602's with no FA, as well as 602-610 series rifles with and without the FA.
I have added several pics which show several series of AR15/M16 without FA, deployed long after the 'Weatermelon Incident'. 2 uncles in Vietnam who flew USAF, one bomber, one cargo, personnel carrier.
See pics, especially 649.....
I have added several pics which show several series of AR15/M16 without FA, deployed long after the 'Weatermelon Incident'. 2 uncles in Vietnam who flew USAF, one bomber, one cargo, personnel carrier.
See pics, especially 649.....
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