AR Forward Assist?

[Gunslinger808]

The M&P 15-Sport isn't the first "budget" AR to omit the FA & dust cover.

There are a lot of higher end uppers ommiting these features as well, most notable are the Billet receivers made by companies like Sun Devil, Mega, and Coleman Tyler.
Heck, some don't even have the deflectors either.
They're also missing on a lot of .308 ARs also.

 

[ldausmc1369]

AR-15

The original "black rifle" was the AR-15 as designed by Stoner. The Colt SP-1 series of rifles are the civilian version; and back in the day, with a registered auto sear and a couple parts (won't mention which ones here) they could be converted to Full Auto and registered. The forward assist is like 4 wheel drive: it'll generally make the situation worse if you are stuck! The primary reason for the F/A was to address a SNAFU by the bean counters - Ball Powder instead of stick powder as originally specified and unlined chambers. Once the power issues were address, cleaning kits issued and chromed lined bores were instituted, the reliability improved dramatically! Ask me how I know? USMC - 1969 - 1971. They made us trade our M-14s for these ***!

 

[jeeps]

Its better to eject and rechamber a round . Much more effective with or without a forward assist.

 

[Rifleman harris]

Forward Assist

I'll start by saying up front I hate the M16. It's a flawed design in that it's too hard to clear and regardless of improvements the fundamental flaw remains. Sooner or later everything jams under combat conditions and the capability of rapidly reducing stoppages should be part of the weapons design.

I have seen hundreds of stoppages in the weapon and experienced many myself. At the time I used the weapon it was unusual to fire a magazine without at least one stoppage. The problem was a failure to extract a fired case followed by an attempt to feed the next round. The only way to clear the weapon resembled going back to the muzzle loader with a cleaning rod section. The FA was useless, you could force the extractor over the fired case but it would not extract.

 

[Mack]

Is your experience limited to mid-60's use in a jungle environment? Believe it or not after almost 50 years of US military use quite a few improvements in both hardware and usage doctrine the weapon has evolved into a very reliable weapon. There is a PIP for the M4 starting and with the coming budget cuts I expect the M16 to remain the primary US rifle for years to come. Is it perfect, not at all, but do your part and keep it properly lubricated and it will run for a lot of rounds.

 

[Mack]

Mack, the model I am referring to is the model 601 ar15. Originally deployed, the improvements you are talking about (FA, and shell deflector, magwell rim being beefed up) came after operational issues. The 601 was picked up by AF and used for some time, even after the 602 came out with a slickside and was subsequently the first series which got the FA upgrade, and then later the shell deflector. There are 602's with no FA, as well as 602-610 series rifles with and without the FA.
I have added several pics which show several series of AR15/M16 without FA, deployed long after the 'Weatermelon Incident'. 2 uncles in Vietnam who flew USAF, one bomber, one cargo, personnel carrier.
See pics, especially 649.....

rojodiablo,

My point was the USAF did not adopt the M16 for flight use, later of course during the Viet Nam war there developed a need to arm flight crews. The 601 (1x14 twist) and 602 (1x12 twist) were procured in limited numbers and used by the Air Force and Special Operations, these early rifles also did not have the mag release fence or butt stock door. The 603 was the M16A1 (w/forward assist) used by the Army and Marines and the 604 was the M16 (w/o forward assist) used by the Air Force. All during the 60's the Air Force was buying different versions the M16 such as the USAF GAU-5A/A all without the F/A. Bottom line is that the Air Force agreed with Eugene Stoner that that F/A was not needed and could take a simple malfunction and make it worse, I happen to agree with this but can live with the F/A, just don't use it. A much larger issue IMO is that I am seeing more rifles without dust covers, these are needed and I would not have an upper without one.

 

[Rifleman harris]

FA

i'm aware of the changes but I pulled one too many dead troops of one of the the things that had jammed to be interested in anything to do with one.

The argument is always " well it's better now" and I don't doubt it jams less but what do you does when it does jam, and they all do. Read about the Battles of Pork Chop Hill, every other sentence is "and then his weapon jammed.". That was with the reliable M1's, BAR, and carbine. How would the M-16 have done?

It won't make a pimple on the butt plate of the AK for use in hard combat. Kalashnikov was a combat vet, Stoner was a designer and it shows.

 

[rojodiablo]

Yep Mack; you covered it. So much to try and explain, how to get it all correct is a PITA at times. Stuff lost in translation!!

My uncle had rifles on the bomber late in the game, 68,69 and then 71. I don't know exactly what they were after by 71. He has a few old pics of the cockpit, and the crew gear kits, etc. Said when a bomber was hit, the whole plan for gathering gear and doing a proper evacuation went out the window for every crew he talked to. His planes were never hit by AA equipment.

Crazy; the rifle has been around so long now, it has become it's own story, not just a tool in a part of another big story.

 

[Dragon88]

Kalashnikov was a combat vet, Stoner was a designer and it shows.

Garand was a machinist. Carbine Williams was a Navy washout and convicted murderer. Both designed excellent weapons which helped us win WWII.

The design of the M-16/M-4 is not stuck in the 60's, and our opinions of it shouldn't be either. The Technical Data Package for the weapon is continually updated where necessary. The military just introduced a new tan follower for the magazines, and updated the ammunition. Colt recently upgraded the spec for the extractor spring on carbines. My M4 never failed me on three deployments and I wouldn't have traded it for any of the previous service rifles.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

I have to agree with Dragon88. The platform is constantly improving. Supposedly the Army is changing the M855 rd. The M4 served me well in my 22 year Army career.( Wish the M9 did, a story for another time.) During my deployment in Iraq I did change my lube, I used powdered graphite, (What a mess) but it worked better than breakfree in a sandy enviroment.