AR15 pistol or not?

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gdnagle

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OK I’m kicking around the idea of getting a AR15 pistol. Thoughts from anyone that has one or has fired one. It will have a 7.5”barrel. Talk me into or out of it. Advantage I see is that it is cheaper then getting a tax stamp for a short barreled rifle. Would close range accuracy be affected by the power of the cartridge it fires with muzzle lift in the 5.56 cartridge. I know you can put a brace on it to help steady it as long as you don’t fire it from the shoulder. I could see the advantage for use in close quarters as in a house, but would probably not be the primary firearm as I have other firearms to chose from. Anyone with one do you use it often or was it just a fad that you bought it. I have been considering this or a M16A1 semi auto clone like I was issued back in 1970, duck bill flash hider, 20 round magazine and all, just because I want one or the other and I already have two other AR’s. What are your thoughts. I also did a forum search and came up with nothing so I either searched for the wrong wording, or missed some other key word in the search.
 
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If you are in a situation to "need" a 223 pistol, you need a 223 rifle.
Save your money.
 
The idea seems Coooooool ..... but.......................


The things that have kept me from a short barrelled AR "pistol" are the..... additional "flash and bang" (w/o a suppressor) and lack of IMHO of a practical use..... just as soon have my Beretta CX-4 9mm
 
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A buddy got one and I think it has gone to the range twice... very loud and not nearly as accurate as you would think. Awkward to hold and shoot without a rest. And the mag hanging down gets in the way... Spend the $200 and get the stamp for a rifle lower and you have a bunch of options available then.
 
I have a couple. One is an 11" barreled firearm which allows a VFG due to OAL.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjnvgKBSSCk[/ame]
It shoots just as good and smooth as a rifle.

The other is a seven inch that everyone but the wife enjoys shoot. It shoots almost as well, just not as smoothly.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXdFJMQ6-KA[/ame]

I'd like an SBR, but would be happy with a dedicated 22lr.
 
I know they are extremely loud and the 5.56/.223 suffers substantial velocity loss out of such so short barrel.

They seem like a bad compromise to me. Almost like top shelf Tec-9's. In extreme close quarters and the confines of a home, it's rather impractical since it is extremely large in the context of a handgun still requiring two hands to operate effectively. They are rather unwieldy and unstable compared to an actual pistol in close quarters with weapon retention also being compromised. And while I don't follow it too closely, I'm always seeing some sort of legal controversy regarding these guns and I simply not don't see them being worth the headache.

Even a SBR(which an AR "pistol" is essentially trying to emulate through legal loophole) is not all that practical for civilian home defense IMO. A lot of folks point to SWAT entry teams using them as an indication they are ideally suited for home defense, but they operate proactively as a team in an offensive context dictating the time and terms. Civilian home defense is an unexpected, reactive and defensive event with the homeowner usually operating alone, having to call 911, open doors, operate light switches, move or move to other family members/kids etc. by themselves and all that is much more easily accomplished by having a free hand while still retaining the ability to operate your weapon one handed. There's also the weapon retention capabilities against the unseen/location unknown criminal who has gained entry into home. Not to mention being prepared and ready to defend against the unexpected during routine day to day living.
 
I owned an AR pistol, i believe it was a 10.5" barrel, and immediately sold it after the first range trip.

I now have an 11" SBR with suppressor that is a ton of fun to shoot, as accurate and reliable as my carbine.

Pop a 300BLK upper on there pushing subsonic ammo with the suppressor and in my mind you have the perfect SD weapon.
 
7.5 inch barrel .223 might as well be a .22 magnum. I can think of lots of more effective choices.
 
Sailfish 40 said:
7.5 inch barrel .223 might as well be a .22 magnum. I can think of lots of more effective choices.
Click to expand...

Not hardly.
22WMR_dynapoint_Maximag_9955.jpg


lSJKqkj.jpg


In sub 10" barrels ammunition selection is more critical. In 10" or longer most anything works well at SD ranges. It's still 44 Magnum power levels here, not rimfire.

The 10-12" barrels have an effective range in the hundreds of yards. They are much smaller and handier than the 18.5-20" shotguns folks love to recommend. They are much easier and faster to shoot than a handgun and have less penetration in building materials than both.

In the end choose what you are comfortable with, but don't base decisions on hearsay or opinions but facts.

Sure it's less than ideal, but "Commando" sized AR's have been in use effectively since the 60's.

Call it an NFA workaround if you will, but they make the silly laws and we just have to follow them.

It's no different than a 18" barreled shotgun, 16" barreled rifle, or pistol grip only shotgun. Legal is legal whether you like the idea or not.

ETA:
In 8" barrels and 45gr projectiles .223 will be moving 1000fps faster than .22 wmr.
 
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Rick_A said:
Not hardly.
22WMR_dynapoint_Maximag_9955.jpg


lSJKqkj.jpg


In sub 10" barrels ammunition selection is more critical. In 10" or longer most anything works well at SD ranges. It's still 44 Magnum power levels here, not rimfire.

The 10-12" barrels have an effective range in the hundreds of yards. They are much smaller and handier than the 18.5-20" shotguns folks love to recommend. They are much easier and faster to shoot than a handgun and have less penetration in building materials than both.

In the end choose what you are comfortable with, but don't base decisions on hearsay or opinions but facts.

Sure it's less than ideal, but "Commando" sized AR's have been in use effectively since the 60's.

Call it an NFA workaround if you will, but they make the silly laws and we just have to follow them.

It's no different than a 18" barreled shotgun, 16" barreled rifle, or pistol grip only shotgun. Legal is legal whether you like the idea or not.

ETA:
In 8" barrels and 45gr projectiles .223 will be moving 1000fps faster than .22 wmr.
Click to expand...

interesting. what type of ammo was in the last picture that got 2600+ fps in the 8 inch barrel?
 
All three are the same ammo, Black Hills 50gr Barnes TSX. There's a few types of expanding ammunition that do quite well in the shorter barrels.

While some consider AR pistols toys or novelties, and they are a lot of fun, they can be quite capable as well.
 
7.5 barrel is good but getting a 10.5" barrel can be better in the sense of ever all handling of the pistol. Little bit more room between front gripping and magazine. Also depending of what kind of rail you put on there. Revo has a nice 9" in rail for 10.5" barrels.
Also phase 5 industries builds in house 2 type of ar pistols.
The only big controversy about the pistols is the legal formalities that are always surrounding them in regards to "braces".
 
All I can say is custom "AR's" are a heck a lot of fun

Been there done that all I can say is "Building any AR" sure is a lot of fun... Very addictive, worse than anything I know, that hobby really can make you go broke in a few months!! There is simply so much DIY AR stuff out there. I build me one AR pistol, had lots of fun building it and shooting it, and yes they are loud but it don't bother me none cuz I am Deaf :D I can tell they are loud by just watching others ... I say, If you like building things, go for it... might not use it alot, but what the heck, you are having fun and it is fun being a little boy again at 68....:rolleyes:
 
I just converted my pistol back to rifle specs. It was cute, and a lot of fun.... but the possible legal ramifications are not worth the worry. When I get an sbr stamp, I will build it right.
DSC00411_zpscbiuespf.jpg
 
As others have noted an AR15 pistol is distinctly unwieldy and really to loud to consider for Self Defense. Just one single shot from a 223 out of a 10 inch barrel in a closed interior will cause a measurable amount of permanent hearing loss. It will also leave your ears ringing for something around 1 week.

Take it from someone with moderate hearing loss, losing a portion of your hearing is a life long PITA. I now do everything I can to preserve my remaining hearing including wearing hearing protection when doing something as mundane as cutting the grass.

My choice for Home Defense is a bit fat sleepy 45 ACP. I'll grant that a 230 grain pill going around 800 fps doesn't generate a lot of muzzle energy but if well placed it should be enough to do what I need it to do.

My advice would be to choose something that is handier and more useful in close quarters than a pistol that requires two hands to shoot well. If you want to play around with an SBR get yourself a Tax Stamp for one and get yourself a firearm that is ergonomically functional. Don't waste your time and money on a kludge that was only created to weasel around the NFA.
 
Thanks all for your thoughts. I think I'll build a 20" AR15 A1 probably be more fun to shoot and there's the nostalgic factor for me. Like I said this would be a range firearm as I have others for self defense if it were needed.
 
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I always thought they were pointless. Only a few types of ammo will do what they're designed to do at short barrel velocities. (Although all ammo will work if all you need it to do is make holes in paper). Aside from all the internet conjecture, here's some actual proof about a round that actually can work out of a short AR pistol.

But then Primary Arms had a sale on a Radical Firearms 7.5" AR Pistol for a measly $399. That's not a typo. Radical Firearms also had a 10.5" version at $399.
I couldn't resist buying the 7.5" for that price. I was just at the range for the second time with it this morning. They're fun to shoot, I don't notice much difference in noise or muzzle blast (might be more noticeable at night) compared to my M&P15 carbine.

I pre-emptively ordered a le vang something or other linear compensator that throws noise and flash forward downrange, but I don't think it's necessary. The standard A2 comp probably reduces muzzle rise more than a linear comp would. The Radical Firearms complete ARs are amazing quality pieces, I can't see anything on it that suggests it would cost so little. I put a micro reflex red dot on a riser and it's a very fun point and click machine.
 
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gdnagle said:
Thanks all for your thoughts. I think I'll build a 20" AR15 A1 probably be more fun to shoot and there's the nostalgic factor for me. Like I said this would be a range firearm as I have others for self defense if it were needed.
Click to expand...

Sportsman's Guide sells a kit with a 20" barrel and the old A2 stock and triangle hand guard, if that is the direction you are thinking of going. Or at least they did a few months back.
 
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