AR15 pistol or not?

[W.E.G.]

To each his own.

I have no use for one.

 

[Rastoff]

Thanks all for your thoughts. I think I'll build a 20" AR15 A1 probably be more fun to shoot and there's the nostalgic factor for me. Like I said this would be a range firearm as I have others for self defense if it were needed.

This is a good decision.

I see no value in the AR pistol. One thing is sure, you can't convert a rifle into a pistol; not legally anyway. So, it would have to be built from the ground up that way.

There are just too many good pistols on the market for this to make any sense. At least not to me.

On another note, I don't care what anyone does. It should be legal to build whatever gun you want without some stupid stamp.

 

[McE]

You can't convert a rifle into a pistol, but you CAN convert a pistol (lower) into a rifle and back at your leisure.

Anyway, all the codgers saying they're pointless- in my book, having fun is a point in and of itself. If you have shot an AR pistol and have decided that you did not enjoy any part of it, then fine, at most you can say "I did not enjoy shooting an AR pistol", but to say they are pointless is overstating it. Or you hate fun, which I guess is possible.

 

[Watchdog]

My choice for Home Defense is a bit fat sleepy 45 ACP. I'll grant that a 230 grain pill going around 800 fps doesn't generate a lot of muzzle energy but if well placed it should be enough to do what I need it to do.

There you go.

My advice would be to choose something that is handier and more useful in close quarters than a pistol that requires two hands to shoot well. Don't waste your time and money on a kludge that was only created to weasel around the NFA.

Nuff said.

 

[scooter123]

Nah, here you go. Since you mentioned building a 20 inch AR here is a pic of mine. It features a 20 inch Shilen Match barrel in 223 Wylde and when I'm shooting well it will produce 3 shot cloverleafs at 100 yards. BTW, that's a Gibbz Arms side charging upper and handguard, some really well designed components. Just love the handguard mount because it doesn't require using a clamp on the receiver.

 

[g8rb8]

OK I'm kicking around the idea of getting a AR15 pistol. Thoughts from anyone that has one or has fired one. .............

BAM-BAM - The idea seems Coooooool ..... but.......................

W.E.G. - To each his own.

Rick_A - I have a couple. One is an 11" barreled firearm which allows a VFG due to OAL.

I've "handled" a few AR15 "pistols" with the "forearm support" but have not shot them and appreciate the post by Rick A to get a first hand review. They look controllable and appear to function fine. I agree they seem like a neat idea. I don't NEED one but need frequently appears irrelevant to many firearm purchases. I suspect some who criticize the AR15 pistol have not actually used them but I generally agree with them a dedicated "normal" handgun seems more practical. Imagine other battle rifles in pistol form ------ Mosin Nagant pistol, M1 Garand pistol, and for the manly-man a Barrett M82 pistol (yikes)?

 

[Rastoff]

You can't convert a rifle into a pistol, but you CAN convert a pistol (lower) into a rifle and back at your leisure.

No, this is not true.

A pistol may be converted into a rifle, but a rifle may not be converted into a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle. Here is the federal law:

18 USC 921 (a)(8)
The term "short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Look, you may think that you'll "get away" with it, but this is nothing to fool with. I'm not sure, but I believe the minimum is 10 years in federal prison for an unregistered SBR. So, you may take your chances if you like, but I take the words, "...any weapon made from a rifle (whether by modification or otherwise)..." seriously and choose not to take any chances on that.

 

[McE]

No, this is not true.

A pistol may be converted into a rifle, but a rifle may not be converted into a pistol. Once a rifle, always a rifle. Here is the federal law:



Look, you may think that you'll "get away" with it, but this is nothing to fool with. I'm not sure, but I believe the minimum is 10 years in federal prison for an unregistered SBR. So, you may take your chances if you like, but I take the words, "...any weapon made from a rifle (whether by modification or otherwise)..." seriously and choose not to take any chances on that.

It's true, though.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

Last page, second "Held further" paragraph

 

[Rick_A]

Rick were those shot at Basic's Gun and Range?

Yeah, just the 2nd vid, of course. They no longer allow folks to bring in their own 223 or 5.56 ammo or to shoot shotguns there so I don't frequent as much.

 

[BIGDOC]

Unless it's full auto.....why ?

 

[Rick_A]

As others have noted an AR15 pistol is distinctly unwieldy and really to loud to consider for Self Defense. Just one single shot from a 223 out of a 10 inch barrel in a closed interior will cause a measurable amount of permanent hearing loss. It will also leave your ears ringing for something around 1 week.

Take it from someone with moderate hearing loss, losing a portion of your hearing is a life long PITA. I now do everything I can to preserve my remaining hearing including wearing hearing protection when doing something as mundane as cutting the grass.

My choice for Home Defense is a bit fat sleepy 45 ACP. I'll grant that a 230 grain pill going around 800 fps doesn't generate a lot of muzzle energy but if well placed it should be enough to do what I need it to do.

My advice would be to choose something that is handier and more useful in close quarters than a pistol that requires two hands to shoot well. If you want to play around with an SBR get yourself a Tax Stamp for one and get yourself a firearm that is ergonomically functional. Don't waste your time and money on a kludge that was only created to weasel around the NFA.

The hearing loss argument has little merit. Most anything in a firearm will be deafening indoors. If regularly engaged in gunfights at yout residence a suppressor or electronic hearing protection may be in order.

A long gun is always better than a hand gun. These guns are essentially a long gun with no stock and can be used just as effectively. You could always take crazy Joe's advice and "just get a shotgun!" My only SBR will likely be a 22lr.

To each their own. It works for me. It shoots just like a carbine and is just as accurate. I have a 40 cal pistol and 18" shotgun at my disposal as well whatever is carried that day, but they would not be my first choice.

This was once my sole AR15 and has been the sole AR rifle for 18 years.
20141229_155944 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

There is nothing wrong with it, but it is a bit unwieldy and not as fun.

That little 7" AR is the most fun I've ever had with any firearm, even if just punching paper. Like all things in life it's not for everyone.

The 11" gun was shocking in how well it worked.

By that logic anything legal could be construed as an ATF workaround. I don't see it that way. Most all carbines are 16" and most shotguns are 18. You make the most of the alphabet the ATF giveth.

 

[MistWolf]

...A pistol may be converted into a rifle, but...Once a rifle, always a rifle...

This is incorrect. Look up the law suit Thompson Contender brought against the ATF. A pistol may be configured as a rifle, then reconfigured back into a pistol

 

[Rastoff]

A pistol may be configured as a rifle, then reconfigured back into a pistol

Only when it was originally designed to be both as is the case in the Thompson Contender suit.

That's fine though. Like I said before, y'all can do what you want. I'm only transferring knowledge gleaned from a lawyer's reading of this whole process. I am not a lawyer so, I'm sure you guys know more than I. I'll choose to err on the side of caution. Like I said before, I don't really see the value of an AR pistol or SBR.

I do believe it should be your right to own whatever you want as long as it's not used to harm others. So, if you want one, and choose to swap it back and forth between rifle and pistol configurations, have at it. I have plenty of other toys to play with.

 

[MistWolf]

Only when it was originally designed to be both as is the case in the Thompson Contender suit.

That's fine though. Like I said before, y'all can do what you want. I'm only transferring knowledge gleaned from a lawyer's reading of this whole process. I am not a lawyer so, I'm sure you guys know more than I. I'll choose to err on the side of caution. Like I said before, I don't really see the value of an AR pistol or SBR.

I do believe it should be your right to own whatever you want as long as it's not used to harm others. So, if you want one, and choose to swap it back and forth between rifle and pistol configurations, have at it. I have plenty of other toys to play with.

As you don't really know, it would be best if you refrain from posting bad information

 

[McE]

Another product that shows the legality of turning a pistol into a rifle-configuration and being able to return it to a pistol without breaking any laws.
Article also cites the same BATFE ruling I tried to have the misinformed individuals read.

Gear/Gun Review: MechTech Carbine Conversion Unit -- TTAG

 

[Chuckles253]

Building an A1 clone sounds great. I have a factory built AR (5.56) and built and assembled a few (in 5.56 and 300BLK.) Just my two cents, which may not be worth squat since I am new to the forum, IMHO, as fun as an AR pistol is to shoot and for it's tacti-coolness, it is a novelty addition, a range toy with no practical use. However, if I were to go down that road, 300BLK would be my first choice for an AR pistol or even an SBR not that I need either. Instead, I would be most likely to add an AK to my armory.

 

[McE]

AR Pistol as a novelty range toy, I understand.

But can you explain this $200 tax stamp to cull a few inches off your AR15 rifle barrel? That is something I do not understand.

 

[Chuckles253]

I think AR pistols and SBRs are neat but I would not own either. All my ARs are set-up with a 16" barrel. As a civilian, I personally have no need for an SBR. I am not an operator or LEO, I am not clearing buildings or eliminating high profile threats. I cannot justify getting a tax stamp for an SBR just for the sake of saying I have one in my collection or to be purposed as a range toy. IHMO, if you run an SBR it should be suppressed, which is an additional tax stamp. No thanks. I would rather spend the money on additional ammo and/or a non-NFA firearm. I prefer practical, multi-use firearms over tacti-cool. I have no need to impress anyone with my collection nor do I crave acceptance from certain cliques at my range. I also do not fantasize about unlikely scenarios (ie. zombie plague.) If I wanted to pick up a special firearm just for the sake of owning one, it would be a 50BMG rifle or a FN Five-seveN but then again, I have no need for either. Just my two cents. To each his/her own.

 

[ClayCow]

AR Pistol as a novelty range toy, I understand.

But can you explain this $200 tax stamp to cull a few inches off your AR15 rifle barrel? That is something I do not understand.

Well...do you cerakote your firearm? Kinda the same thing if you do. Do you dress up your gun with different accessories? In a way its similar. I dont think ill SBR atleast not for a while, simply no need at this time

 

[gen3guy]

I don't see a practical use for an AR or AK pistol. I don't see the "cool factor" either. If you want a short barreled AR, go to the trouble of legally acquiring an SBR. Some people see the Sig Brace as a poor man's SBR, but I don't recommend it. Very uncomfortable to shoot in my opinion.