Are humpback hammers rare, PICTURES ADDED.

[dacoontz]

Was at a local gun show today and saw a Boston Police Department K frame with a humpback hammer. It was the first humpback hammer I have seen in person since collecting Smiths. I can't recall what the model of the pistol was but I am fairly certain it was a 38 M & P. It had K frame hand ejector stocks with a diamond but no S&W medallions. Fairly used but okay shape considering what it has been used for. I don't remember the serial number. Any ideas about this pistol. I took the sellers info in case I was later interested in the pistol. He had it there for $400 but I was not interested in paying that for this model gun, but now I wondering if I passed something good up because of the rare hammer and BPD markings on the backstrap. Sorry, no pics.

 

[rburg]

If it was a humpback hammer, it alone was worth the price of the gun and hammer. The HBH option was only available on M&Ps in the last half of the 1930s. It means the serail number of the gun would need to be in the 650-690,000s range ( one could have been retrofitted to a lower number gun.) Its not unusual for someone without the knowledge to call a fishhook hammer a humpback. Its not.

 

[DCWilson]

Also, the standard prewar hammers had a very shallow thumb dish on top. Compared to later hammers, they look like they ought to be called humpback hammers. But the real humpback hammers had NO dish on top at all.

Here is a quick comparison. This is a Model 1905 Target with a humpback hammer on it...

Amd this is the same gun with the standard hammer...

A closeup of the HBH...

I'm not arguing that the gun you saw did NOT have a humpback hammer on it. I'm just saying that it seems likely to me that it did not. If you can confirm that it is in fact a HBH, then you should buy the package at $400, sell the hammer separately, get a standard hammer for the gun, and either keep or sell it as you see fit.

 

[dacoontz]

David,
I am fairly certain that it did NOT have any swell in it. I have made that mistake before but this time when I saw the pistol I knew right away that the hammer was different. I'll have to get a hold of him on Monday and see if he still has it andis interested in shipping it. I just wanted to make sure that the configuration I saw wasn't an impossible combination. I wonder if the gun was originally shipped that way as a special order for some Boston Police Officer. I can only wonder at this point. Thanks for the info and pics. Daniel.

 

[DCWilson]

One last thought. The humpback hammers were to my knowledge all designed for use in long-action revolvers. If the Boston PD gun you are looking at is of postwar manufacture, you should confirm that it has the long action, not the short action.

 

[dacoontz]

I'm not sure this guy would know how to tell the difference. And to be honest I doubt he will know how to e-mail the serial number and a picture to refresh my memory. But I guess we'll see what he can do.

 

[Elvis Ray Bob]

DC,
Thanks for the great photos and explaination on the details of the "Humpback Hammer" I have a "long action" 5 inch, M&P from 1946 (S/N S 87816*) and I always thought it had a humpback hammer, Now I don't know. I'm digging out some reference material and looking closely at my M&P. It looks like I'll be busy for a while. I will post some detailed pictures of my M&P within the next few weeks. I'm looking forward to your opinion. Regards,

 

[S. Kelly]

dacoontz, where was it located? I collect Boston PD guns, not sure if we had K-Frames prior to the mid-60s. We were a Colt dept for some reason, but since we were beggars as well, we could have had a few S&Ws.

 

[dacoontz]

dacoontz, where was it located? I collect Boston PD guns, not sure if we had K-Frames prior to the mid-60s. We were a Colt dept for some reason, but since we were beggars as well, we could have had a few S&Ws.

It was at a gunshow in Utah that I saw the pistol. And maybe that means it was a special order for someone within the department if it is an old M&P with those markings. I have a message to the seller to get some pictures of the pistol and to make him an offer it the hammer is authentic. From what I remember the rest of the gun was pretty worn. It may have had a really bad refinish job also, I can't remember much past yesterday.

 

[dacoontz]

I got a picture of the old m&p with a copy of the letter, sorry not a very good pic. I am fairly certain that this is a humpback hammer. So I am buying. The gun seems interesting as well since it is a marker Boston PD pistol as the letter shows. The letter says nothing about the hammer though, is this unusual?

 

[DCWilson]

That sure looks like a humpback hammer to me. I recant my original suspicion.

I think the factory records would have recorded the hammer as a feature of the shipped revolver if it had been installed. The letter's silence on this point leads me to believe that this hammer was added to the gun after it was delivered. Perhaps the PD armorer swapped it out at the request of the officer to whom it was issued, but one could come up with other plausible scenarios as well.

Nice gun, good deal. Congratulations.

Just as a footnote, humpback hammers were available options on N-frames and K-frames, and on the K-frames you could get them with attached firing pins for centerfire or flat-face for K-22s with frame-mounted firing pins. There are reports of special-order I-frame humpback hammers, but I have never seen one.

N-frame humpback hammers are more costly than K-frame hammers, for some reason.

 

[VM]

Daniel - it sure likes like HBH from picture. I don't believe you can go wrong on the price.
Even if the hammer didn't ship with the gun .........don't worry.
Very Cool.

It seems as though you have caught the Bug!
Congrats

 

[james56]

HBH

What would the advantage be of replaceing the orginal or standard hammer be over a HBH. Personaly I think the HBH is very cumbersome to the standard hammers. JMPO.. Very interesting topic.
thanks
james56

 

[moosedog]

Very informative thread.
What is the difference between a "Fish hook Hammer" and a Hump Back?
This is a Pre War HD I have that has a similar hammer. Is this a Fish Hook or a Hump Back?
That's a Wonder Sight that is sticking out on top.

 

[DCWilson]

What would the advantage be of replaceing the orginal or standard hammer be over a HBH. Personaly I think the HBH is very cumbersome to the standard hammers. JMPO.. Very interesting topic.
thanks
james56

Here's a link to the humpback hammer patent application. You will need to download the PDF document (link in middle of page). Douglas Wesson's rationale for the design of the hammer is explained in the text.

Hammer for firearms - Patent 2176478

For some reason Firefox gives me a PDF open error when I try to get to the patent. Internet Explorer opens it just fine.

 

[james56]

DC

Thanks DC
That really helped. I normally shoot DA I have to try it with the only HBH I have
james

Here's a link to the humpback hammer patent application. You will need to download the PDF document (link in middle of page). Douglas Wesson's rationale for the design of the hammer is explained in the text.

Hammer for firearms - Patent 2176478

For some reason Firefox gives me a PDF open error when I try to get to the patent. Internet Explorer opens it just fine.

 

[rburg]

This will be kind of an obscene post....

There are things that make individuals smile. I can think of two of them that came from S&W. Both occur with your eyes closed. Dan Williams is responsible for the perverted pleasure you get from Coke's, or at least my introduction to the methodology.

You take a set of coke bottle grips, on or off a gun. You hold them by the edges and with your eyes closed, you run your thumb and forefinger down opposite sides. It takes an idiot (defined as any non-gun person) not to get a smile as they feel the contours that make it a Coke.

The second great pleasure is to take a gun with a HBH. Simple, just select one of the many in your gun safe... As always, you check it to make sure its empty. Then again, with your eyes closed, you cock the gun. It doesn't matter if its extended toward a target, or just as well at the floor alongside your foot. The unconstrained smile comes across your face as your thumb rests on the hammer. Its just so easy and natural, you wonder why all hammers aren't so naturally placed.

If you don't believe me, try the test your self. Its one of the great natural pleasures of life.

 

[james56]

Now I have to Go open the Gunsafe and see for myself! Not that I dont believe you I just got 2 HBH's handguns for Christmas and they just seemed to be awckward to cock back. There my frist HBH's and I love the handgun's. and havent been to the range with them yet.
Thanks guy's for all the info
james

 

[Memphis]

I'm extremly scared to say that I know "exactly" what Dick is talking about. To me there is just something about the feel and the ugly look of the HBH that I dearly love. They're not for everyone. Not trying to speak for Lee but I believe he has stated he doesn't care for them. Personally I have 5 guns that have them. Only two letter as shipped that way.
Those hammers are hard to find and if you do find one I'd suggest buying it (if not too costly). I cringe to admit that I recently sold four of them to our esteemed friend Mr Wilson out on the left coast (to fund another S&W purchase). Cool hammers.

Roger

 

[DCWilson]

I cringe to admit that I recently sold four of them to our esteemed friend Mr Wilson out on the left coast ...

Roger

And that's one of them up there on the 1905 Target in post No. 3 in this thread. The other three were K-22 hammers. I have not yet put one on my 1934 Outdoorsman to see what it looks like and how it shoots.

But Roger, left coast? Please! From my perspective I am on the right coast of the Pacific Ocean (which is, after all, the best ocean.)

Admittedly I do sometimes shoot left-handed -- but never yet with a humpback hammer.