Are You Fed Up with Bad Behavior at Shooting Ranges?

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, I am more concerned about driving on roads with drunks, druggies, blue tooth users, etc. The 4 indoor ranges I shoot at are carefully monitored. Remember that most new shooters receive next to no proper instruction in shooting, gun handling.
Jeff Cooper wrote that his correspondents in The Sandbox were appalled by the careless weapons handling they saw.

 

[NFrameFred]

Jeff Cooper wrote that his correspondents in The Sandbox were appalled by the careless weapons handling they saw.

And before the colonel's body was cold there were bunches of back biters blathering about his faults, his views and the like, things they would never have had the guts to say about him to his face . . . face it folks - 'ol Jeffro was spot on about decrying the 'age of the common man' (among many other things). I could (and probably have) related witnessing such experiences at ranges - just would add to the din and solve nothing.

Treading lightly here . . . everything that is good and decent in the world has a counterfeit - you can believe or not the source of these two realities, but you can't deny the evidence under your nose. By guile, patience, good sounding platitudes, twisting of words to deny the truth of what was said/intended, by elevating 'the freedom from being offended' to a basic right that only a society run by morons could have conceived . . . the keys have been stolen (or sadly, just handed over) to those who will have us believe morals, right and wrong, honor, respect, responsibility . . . all these things are 'relative' and can mean whatever an in-duh-vidual decides for him or her self what they want it to mean. Live in the past and hang on to ancient wrongs and condemn people today for things they didn't do and had no part in to mollify 'victims' that never experienced the situation. Deny the truth because it's your 'right' and your rights take precedence over others 'because'. Cherry pick your reasons and use circular logic to keep the waters muddied so there can never be anyone or any power on this earth to "judge" the validity of your assertions about your 'right' to do as you please or deserve 'what you're entitled to'.

These discussions of specific manifestations of these things such as the behavior, attitude and compliance to set of standards at a shooting range are only visual symptoms of the rot that has gone so far the tree cannot recover, only suitable to eventually be hewn down and cast into the fire. Yeah, I know I'm a wet blanket and as guilty as any about shaking my fist at the wind for things that can't/won't be changed and occasionally lend my voice to the futility of the discussions.

I guess to me, it's like reading the back of the book first to see how it ends - reading the rest of the story after that is just an exercise in frustration.

 

[twodog max]

I belong to a gun club that owns it's own land and range. In spite of the fact any new member is given safety instructions and signs a list of rules infractions occur. Courtesy sometimes is lacking. If we observe problems that can wait for correction we are instructed to contact the club safety officer and they address the problem. Members have been eliminated on occasion.
The most aggravating thing is in the target house there is a sign with bold lettering. Remove all staples from target stakes, cardboard backing and clean up and dispose of old targets. This is rarely done. I usually go early mornings on weekdays and usually am there by myself. I often spend a half hour sweeping up 22 cases on the line and pulling staples.
Some people just never seem to get the idea of courtesy and safety.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Those of us who have worked in City Public Schools can see the people who will be "misbehaving" at the public shooting ranges, and understand why these people will not obey safety laws. From what I've seen at a public range these young "adults" never had proper discipline growing up, at home or in school. Most of the folks, young or older, at the one public range I frequent seem to be pretty safe around the handgun range. Although, while still being fairly safe in doing so, many don't pay attention to the 6-cartridge limit or the mag dump rules. A permit is required to shoot at the State Game Land ranges but I've not seen a game warden check for them in quite some time. Monday thru Thursdays in the AM is the best time to go.

 

[NYlakesider]

For what it's worth, I'd like to relate a preventive measure. My pistol club somehow acquired an aerial photograph that showed the range and the house on the the other side of the hill. All new members are informed about the picture (it's hanging on the wall at the range) and how there cannot be any elevated shooting that would put rounds onto that other property. New members were told that such an incident could cause the city to decide not to renew our lease and the club would be out of business.

Great idea. I will bring it up at our next meeting. Thanks!


In general I have seen a lot at the clubs I have belonged to.

Of the two clubs I now belong to its rather interesting that at the one club I see more problems. This club is older more expensive and has for want of better words a higher class of members. Also more range/safety problems.

The other club for sure could be considered Red Neck. Most members are blue collar, construction, truck drivers, farmers and the biggest group is retired. We have a rifle range, pistol range, trap and archery. Also decent key carded heated indoor range and during the normal work day you many times can have the range to yourself. I see less problems there that at the more gentlemanly club, whoed a thunk it.

 

[Jeff423]

After reading these stories I'm glad I belong to the private range I do. No one can go down range to change a target without the permission of everyone else on the range. The "cold range" flashing lights are turned on and a buzzer sounds. (the lights stay on the whole time). All actions have to be open and everyone has to step away from their bench. We used to allow cleaning on a cold range but encountered some problems so now no one can touch a gun on a cold range. The range cannot go "hot" until all shooters are informed. Some might say that's over organized but it works.
I think there were some problems with "tacticool" shooters a couple of years ago but they are gone now.

 

[Protocall_Design]

After reading these stories I'm glad I belong to the private range I do. No one can go down range to change a target without the permission of everyone else on the range. The "cold range" flashing lights are turned on and a buzzer sounds. (the lights stay on the whole time). All actions have to be open and everyone has to step away from their bench. We used to allow cleaning on a cold range but encountered some problems so now no one can touch a gun on a cold range. The range cannot go "hot" until all shooters are informed. Some might say that's over organized but it works.
I think there were some problems with "tacticool" shooters a couple of years ago but they are gone now.

That is how you run a range so no one gets shot or killed. If I end up at a place that doesn't work that way, I'm gone. I have tried to get others to act right and be safe, but often times they all just get mad and refuse. Not much you can do at that point but get far away.

 

[Just another 22 shooter]

Volunteering again this summer with the Colorado Div of Wildlife, among other things I monitor the Beyers canyon range. I see all sorts of things. Mainly ignorant of safe handling of firearms. Things that seem just common sense to me.
Be well
Tom B

I lived in Kremmling back in the late 70s. Many great memories of shooting at the Byers Canyon range. I can only think of a couple of times that any other shooters were there when I was shooting. I can't imagine how crazy that place could be today with all the population growth and recreational activities in that area. Wish I had a range like that near me today.

 

[NFrameFred]

Remember that most new shooters receive next to no proper instruction in shooting, gun handling.

Yes. God forbid something so simple and common sense as general familiarity and basic gun safety should be taught in schools.
Instead we need to pass some more laws (since the thousands we have now are enforced and working so well) that mandate a bunch of disinterested know nothings create a new bureaucracy and implement new regulations, taxes and fees to be administrated by taxpayer funded in-duh-viduals whose qualifications include being connected by birth or marriage to those running the whole shebang, and make sure it has a new Cabinet position to oversee it with a headquarters and field offices in each state. We need to make sure it has some altruistic, lofty moniker that virtue signals our great intentions like maybe "The Citizens Safety Bureau for the Futherence of a Good First Step in Reducing the Number of Senseless Child Deaths By Something We Don't Think You Need Anyway" .

By cracky ! I think I'm on to something !!

 

[HJBM&P22Custom]

So why did you say "no"?

 

[Mercury]

As with anything, it's a good idea to keep aware of whats' going on around you.

When I shoot at a pistol range and there are others present, I try to get the point that is all the way to the right because most people are right-handed and when they have an issue with a handgun, they tend to point it left, while still holding it in their right-hand and sometimes while their finger is still on the trigger. They end up pointing it at everyone that's on the line to their left.

This seems to be more likely with new shooters....but not always.

 

[Golddollar]

The most aggravating thing is in the target house there is a sign with bold lettering. Remove all staples from target stakes, cardboard backing and clean up and dispose of old targets. This is rarely done. I usually go early mornings on weekdays and usually am there by myself. I often spend a half hour sweeping up 22 cases on the line and pulling staples.
Some people just never seem to get the idea of courtesy and safety.

At least until they snag their hand on a staple in the target board.

 

[Faulkner]

I have been told that the current generation thinks we Boomers are too uptight about things like rules and protocols and our expectations of others.

 

[6string]

As with anything, it's a good idea to keep aware of whats' going on around you.

When I shoot at a pistol range and there are others present, I try to get the point that is all the way to the right because most people are right-handed and when they have an issue with a handgun, they tend to point it left, while still holding it in their right-hand and sometimes while their finger is still on the trigger. They end up pointing it at everyone that's on the line to their left.

This seems to be more likely with new shooters....but not always.

I do the same thing.

 

[6string]

I see lots of crazy stuff. Some of the craziest happens during the winter when daylight time is shorter.
These ranges all close at dusk/dark.
Makes sense, right?
Well, a developing trend involves guys with lasers, piccatinny mounted lights, or night sights showing up at precisely that time. It is very scary to see red or green laser beams jerking around randomly, while hearing voices from people you can't see mixed in with live fire. (Just imagine being the guy who goes out to change a target!)
I've witnessed this from the roadside on several occasions, driving by when these ranges are supposedly closed.

 

[pharmer]

Triple N is run by Florida Fish and Game. Bad behavior is not allowed. RSO's are nice and leave you alone if you follow rules. Occasionally a couple, group or family will show up without any "background." RSO's will spend all their time "schooling" and watching. In 6 years I don't think there are half a dozen "accidental" bullet holes in the fixtures. Joe

 

[AJ]

We are very lucky to have a County Range that is staffed with very good range officers. No targets other than paper are allowed. No tomfoolery is allowed. Weapons are only allowed to be loaded on the firing point. They put up with no guff. Violation of a range rule is meant with a short discussion by the Range Officer. A second violation is you are told to leave. Sometimes the first violation will have the same results if bad enough. When targets are being worked with, those still at the firing line are moved back about 4-5 feet behind the firing line. Some do not like it as they feel it is to strict. I feel comfortable........

There is another private club range about 25 miles north of us. Visited their range once. On their unsupervised rifle range their shooters do pretty much what they want. You have to get all the shooters to agree to call the line cold to change or work on a target. While you are downrange, the other shooters are doing whatever they want up to and including aiming in on targets while you are downrange. Shot there once and never again.......

 

[GypsmJim]

I have been told that the current generation thinks we Boomers are too uptight about things like rules and protocols and our expectations of others.

Our private club is located next to a county park that is used for hiking and cross country skiing. All the park trials are clearly marked and don't go anywhere near our property. The club has been in existence for 80 years, and longer than the park. All the firing ranges are directed at a mountain, and away from the park.
Posted n very conspicuous places along the boundary are no trespass signs.

Last year 2 snooty old women decided that they were going to leave the trail and explore on their own thru the woods. They came across a sign and said that nobody could tell them what to do.

They went uphill and exited in a nice clearing and saw a big board but didn't know what it was. It was the backstop to the 300 yard rifle range. It was in use.

Of course the 2 shooters made their rifles safe, but walked down to point out their errors. I said snooty because THEY got mad that rifles were pointed at them. The State Police gave them a talking to.

We have cameras around the property. A picture of them sure looked like they were boomers. I guess all generations have a few $%^$#.

 

[Doug M.]

I rarely shoot outside due to the fire risk and the risk if meeting bad folks who think that is a great place to steal a gun. That said, last time I did, the behavior was just fine.

Most of the time I shoot at a commercial range about 35 miles from here. They have rules, standards and expectations, and enough RSOs monitoring to enforce them (and it is not cheap, which is how they have the amenities and reduce the riffraff). The wort thing I have seen is the folks who have relatively large/loud rifles coming to test them before hunting season, and that is allowed up to a certain caliber.

 

[pantannojack]

I consider that any one with a gun in possession is knowledgeable of safety RULES, and that if they violate those rules it is INTENTIONAL and shall be responded to as a illegal violator. That means "IN THEIR FACE". Sweeping the area is Assault with a WEAPON. They need to shamed before their family. I support what the poster wrote about the one mulligan. A fist in the face would be an appropriate second warning. Unsafe handling should be treated as at the very least serious traffic violations such as texting while driving or drunk driving.

 

[swsig]

My range (indoor) is owned by a former LEO, and many of the employees are former LEOs as well. Needless to say, it is very well run. In the nine years I've been shooting there, I have only experienced one bad behavior, and it was more odd than bad. I had stopped shooting and was loading my magazines, when I felt a bump against the back of my legs. I looked down, and there was an obviously desperate reloader scuffling around in my stall on his hands and knees picking up empties. I was so astonished, I couldn't think of anything to say. The R.O. was advising some other shooters, so he didn't see it. I stepped out of the stall so he could finish his scuffling. He he was polite enough to thank me, though. In retrospect it was more amusing than dangerous, but if I'd fallen backwards over him, it could have been a problem. So, a lesson for reloaders: No surprise scuffling in other shooters' stalls!

 

[Muss Muggins]

Drunk driving is a "very least serious traffic violation?"

Asking for a friend . . .

I consider that any one with a gun in possession is knowledgeable of safety RULES, and that if they violate those rules it is INTENTIONAL and shall be responded to as a illegal violator. That means "IN THEIR FACE". Sweeping the area is Assault with a WEAPON. They need to shamed before their family. I support what the poster wrote about the one mulligan. A fist in the face would be an appropriate second warning. Unsafe handling should be treated as at the very least serious traffic violations such as texting while driving or drunk driving.

 

[Jebus35745]

We could use a 6-string at the club bgrafsr mentioned above, North Olmsted Spokesman Club. I believe you were living in Akron Oh at one point, simple answer, move to Ohio!! We would welcome you at the Tuesday morning old guys open shooting.

We even host the **NE Ohio Bunch** twice a year. I Did it for 12 years twice a year.

You can have your choice of a winter bullseye league, a 2 month summer bullseye league, double action pistol shooting league for 8 weeks (Dirty Harry), IDPA modified for a 50' range every week, a club special shoot, a Glock shoot of some sort, a .22 pin shoot, trap every other Sunday and archery. Sometimes they shoot an 1800 on a Saturday or pellet pistol. Every other Sunday in a supervised kids shoot.

I only shoot on Tuesday morning with the old guys. I started that 7 years ago when I retired. Whew. I'm tired now, gonna head for bed. Larry

PS. If you make a mistake you will be told by the range officer and if bad enough reviewed by the trustees. Next step is out the door!!

 

[AJ]

We could use a 6-string at the club bgrafsr mentioned above, North Olmsted Spokesman Club. I believe you were living in Akron Oh at one point, simple answer, move to Ohio!! We would welcome you at the Tuesday morning old guys open shooting.

We even host the **NE Ohio Bunch** twice a year. I Did it for 12 years twice a year.

You can have your choice of a winter bullseye league, a 2 month summer bullseye league, double action pistol shooting league for 8 weeks (Dirty Harry), IDPA modified for a 50' range every week, a club special shoot, a Glock shoot of some sort, a .22 pin shoot, trap every other Sunday and archery. Sometimes they shoot an 1800 on a Saturday or pellet pistol. Every other Sunday in a supervised kids shoot.

I only shoot on Tuesday morning with the old guys. I started that 7 years ago when I retired. Whew. I'm tired now, gonna head for bed. Larry

PS. If you make a mistake you will be told by the range officer and if bad enough reviewed by the trustees. Next step is out the door!!

No real matches here. However, we can shoot 365 here in shorts and t-shirts.

 

[6string]

We could use a 6-string at the club bgrafsr mentioned above, North Olmsted Spokesman Club. I believe you were living in Akron Oh at one point, simple answer, move to Ohio!! We would welcome you at the Tuesday morning old guys open shooting.

We even host the **NE Ohio Bunch** twice a year. I Did it for 12 years twice a year.

You can have your choice of a winter bullseye league, a 2 month summer bullseye league, double action pistol shooting league for 8 weeks (Dirty Harry), IDPA modified for a 50' range every week, a club special shoot, a Glock shoot of some sort, a .22 pin shoot, trap every other Sunday and archery. Sometimes they shoot an 1800 on a Saturday or pellet pistol. Every other Sunday in a supervised kids shoot.

I only shoot on Tuesday morning with the old guys. I started that 7 years ago when I retired. Whew. I'm tired now, gonna head for bed. Larry

PS. If you make a mistake you will be told by the range officer and if bad enough reviewed by the trustees. Next step is out the door!!

I like established clubs that adopt formal target shooting to their membership. It's a good way to keep things informal in a friendly way, yet still shoot with the objective of precision marksmanship.

Weekday evening Bullseye leagues, or a morning or afternoon weekend shoot with friends from your club is a lot of fun and a productive way to keep up your skills.
And, in keeping with the thread topic, it's reassuring to know that the guys to either side of you can be trusted to know how to safely handle their firearms.

 

[RobertJ.]

At my range, there is absolutely no nonsense allowed. Of course, I'm the only one there. In all the years I've shot here, there has only been one other person who showed up to shoot while I was there. He came out to pattern his turkey gun, and had driven further than I had, so I took a break (since I was there for the whole afternoon) to let him do that.

There is evidence that other people use this range also, but I've never seen them, and they apparently have the same distaste for trash that I do.

I am so thankful I don't have to use public ranges.

 

[jc2721]

The Koko Head shooting range is the only public rifle and pistol range on Oahu and it's free to the public. It's a City park so it is staffed by paid, albeit part time RSOs and in my opinion they do an excellent job of monitoring and enforcing the posted safety rules.

Whenever new shooters show up the RSOs generally talk to them about safety and they watch them like hawks while they're shooting. If someone I don't know is shooting next to, or near me I will usually sit back a few minutes into the session and observe their gun handling. If it's bad I'll move but not before speaking to an RSO (if they haven't already caught the safety violations)

Recently, the only time I've had to speak to someone about handling firearms safely was in my favorite LGS. A new shooter (I'm guessing he was a newb) was looking at a few handguns but he kept inadvertently pointing them in my direction. The clerk apparently didn't notice what was going on, so after about the 3rd time I counted to ten then politely asked the guy to not point guns at me. He was apologetic and everything worked out OK but it took a while for my blood pressure to subside.

 

[robrossk]

After reading these stories I'm glad I belong to the private range I do. No one can go down range to change a target without the permission of everyone else on the range. The "cold range" flashing lights are turned on and a buzzer sounds. (the lights stay on the whole time). All actions have to be open and everyone has to step away from their bench. We used to allow cleaning on a cold range but encountered some problems so now no one can touch a gun on a cold range. The range cannot go "hot" until all shooters are informed. Some might say that's over organized but it works.
I think there were some problems with "tacticool" shooters a couple of years ago but they are gone now.

I have been a guest at the range mentioned above. Really nice and one of the few that has a 1,000 yard range. I only wish it was closer. There is a public range run by the Missouri Dept of Natural Resources fairly close that is also first class. Best public outdoor range I have ever been to and very strict on safety and rules in general. Regarding safety in general, I only go to the indoor range on weekdays and usually in the morning. NEVER in the evening or on weekends. Too much crazy stuff. And we also have some unsupervised public ranges. For the most part my experience has been good but again only during morning and weekdays.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I shoot about weekly and supervise (as RSO) weekly at a private range. There used to be an unsupervised public range range around here, but it ran into some complex legal issues which are slowly being resolved. Or not. Nobody I know cares which. There are numerous private ranges in the area, far more than in the parts of FL or VA where I have lived.

At our club, there is always a small amount of ignorance that can be corrected. As far as actual attitude problems, I have not yet encountered any, although I know for a fact that there have been at least two within the last few decades, probably more.

Not surprisingly, I have concluded that if we do our jobs properly, we can control at least the private clubs with which we associate ourselves.

 

[crankyoldlady]

Is this the price we all must pay in a society where noticing or calling out bad behavior is considered worse than the bad behavior itself???

We now live in a society where calling out someone else's behavior can get you beat up. Or worse!