Articles about J frame failures

[lrrifleman]

Over the past few months, I have noticed a few posts where people have had issues with J frames exhibiting extreme levels of wear despite low levels of use. Some have mentioned that S&W had replaced either the frame or the entire revolver, while others wrote about how they were stuck with an unusable revolver that Smith wouldn't stand behind.

Were any of these the 4XX or 6XX series Airweight revolvers, or were these the Scandium J frames?

Are there any issues with the Airweight J frame revolvers that a potential buyer should be aware of?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Univibe]

Biggest issue is that it runs out of ammo after only five shots. That's about two seconds when Tango Blast members are jacking you. And no reload. R.I.P

If you had a G19, it would still be hosing the baddies with lead.

 

[RGNewell]

Biggest issue is that it runs out of ammo after only five shots. That's about two seconds when Tango Blast members are jacking you. And no reload. R.I.P

If you had a G19, it would still be hosing the baddies with lead.

After I send 5 rounds .357 at them from my 640 pro series!, I'll send 5 rounds of 38 plus P. Don't think I will need to reload.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

If you do not end the problem within 5 rounds, your opponent will.

 

[rockquarry]

Over the past few months, I have noticed a few posts where people have had issues with J frames exhibiting extreme levels of wear despite low levels of use. Some have mentioned that S&W had replaced either the frame or the entire revolver, while others wrote about how they were stuck with an unusable revolver that Smith wouldn't stand behind.

Were any of these the 4XX or 6XX series Airweight revolvers, or were these the Scandium J frames?

Are there any issues with the Airweight J frame revolvers that a potential buyer should be aware of?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

Gunfighting theory aside and getting back to your question - are you speaking of cracked frames, general premature wear, or something more specific?

 

[Univibe]

If you do not end the problem within 5 rounds, your opponent will.

This is a persistent myth. Depending on the situation--active shooter? Drive by? Gang robbery? you may just be getting started.

Same story for bear defense. Pundits hold that when Griz charges, you won't get off more than 1 or 2 rounds. Then you read the 93 Cases and see how many were protracted struggles.

 

[petepeterson]

Gunfighting theory aside and getting back to your question - are you speaking of cracked frames, general premature wear, or something more specific?

Thanks for steering it back on the track...
I was thinking of "bullet jump", but the OP seems to be referring to premature wear.
The household here has a 442 and a 642. The 442 has been fire a lot! Other than a smoother trigger, I don't see an adverse effects, and it's seen a variety of +P rounds as well.
I'll be interested to see what the .357 guys have to say.

 

[GerSan69]

Biggest issue is that it runs out of ammo after only five shots. That's about two seconds when Tango Blast members are jacking you. And no reload. R.I.P

If you had a G19, it would still be hosing the baddies with lead.

Somebody needs to cut back on the Red Bull.
Jus' sayin'........

 

[stansdds]

The biggest failures of J-frames that I can think of is with those that have aluminum frames. They can crack in the thin area below the barrel. Given that, if it was a really common failure, I expect S&W would have quickly stopped making them.

 

[lrrifleman]

Gunfighting theory aside and getting back to your question - are you speaking of cracked frames, general premature wear, or something more specific?

Sir, thank you for addressing my question. Considering that my memory is a bit clouded due to an accident related concussion, I believe that I remember posts addressing both premature wear AND cracked frames.

I am asking since I have an opportunity to act on some Airweights, but I don't want to buy a revolver with a severely limited service life.

For those that "misread" my initial inquiry, I have more than enough semi-autos that can be utilized for a tactical application, where needed.

 

[rockquarry]

Sir, thank you for addressing my question. Considering that my memory is a bit clouded due to an accident related concussion, I believe that I remember posts addressing both premature wear AND cracked frames.

I am asking since I have an opportunity to act on some Airweights, but I don't want to buy a revolver with a severely limited service life.

For those that "misread" my initial inquiry, I have more than enough semi-autos that can be utilized for a tactical application, where needed.

I shoot J-frames considerably, but now only have one Airweight and its a 638-3 I've had since 2008. Despite comments by the lock moaners, it has a lock yet is the most accurate snub nose gun I own. It's been fired considerably, though almost entirely with standard pressure cast bullet handloads using a 160 grain SWC. No sign of looseness or any other problem or "premature wear".

I had a Model 38 Airweight from the '70s in like new condition that I bought used more than ten years ago. Within a hundred rounds or so of standard pressure handloads, the frame cracked in the usual thin spot in the threaded portion under the rear of the barrel. S&W replaced the gun with another 638-3.

The same thing happened with a Colt Agent from the '60s. I bought this gun in what appeared to be well-used condition, though I didn't know the history or how much it had been fired or with what ammo. However, the gun was mechanically tight and timing was fine. I had fired several hundred cartridges in it when the frame cracked.

I don't believe any of these earlier alloy-framed guns were designed for extensive shooting and for that reason wouldn't buy another. I still have a '57 Colt Cobra (aluminum frame) that continues to work well, but I don't shoot it a lot.

My steel J-frame guns and a '55 Colt Detective Special have all held up very well, including a couple of S&Ws that I bought new well over forty years ago. I think the newer S&W Airweight are more robust revolvers than the older ones and see no reason not to shoot them regularly, but my comments are based on experience using standard pressure ammo.

As for the difference in weight between alloy-framed guns and steel-framed versions - the weight discrepancy is obvious when these guns are unloaded. When loaded, it's hard to see much of an advantage, particularly if you're using the 158 grain bullets these guns were designed for.

 

[Old_Cop]

The potential for a crack under the barrel/frame is enough to make me shy away from any future purchases. In fact I sold a nice Model 38 because I didn't want to shoot it and take a chance.

 

[Duckfood]

I have never owned a Lightweight or Airweight J-Frame, so, I cannot comment on their longevity...

I have a Model 36 that my uncle has put several thousand rounds through before it became mine... I've added a few thousand more rounds through it...

I have a 649-5 that I have owned for at least 12 years... It's seen several .357 rounds and more .38 and .38+P rounds than I would care to count... She's on my hip every day with no cracks, breaks, or anything else that would leave me to believe that I need to repair or replace the firearm...

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Didn’t realize that the J’s were so flimsy and problematic.
I may donate mine to a Charity!
My 642 is out in my SUV right now.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

There was an issue I read of a while back where a poster had an airweight that had wear on the integral stud that would hold the cylinder in when open. Simth said it was due to "abuse" and would not do anything about it. Me-I can see that the steel cylinder hitting against the softer stud may very well cause wear or if the stud is a bit small (tolerances) it over time might allow the cylinder to slip over it. Otherwise the cracked frame under the barrel was determined to be a result of over tourqing the barrel into the frame at time of assembly. I have two airweights, a 337 and a 638-2. Both are shot sparingly and are in good shape. Meant to be carried more than shot. If I want to shoot 357's from a small frame revolver I will use my SP101. Those airweight Smiths are brutal to shoot for an extended period. Advice is to shoot enough to hit what you want to hit at the distance you want to shoot and then STOP, LOAD and CARRY. Save the extended shooting for steel framed guns and semi's. Shoot the airweigts only enough to ensure you still can hit what you are aiming at. I do not think weekly sessions are really necessary nothwithstanding internet commando advice.
Just remembered, I have a third airweight, a 317. That one gets shot a little more.

 

[balin]

As the total amount of guns be manufactured is at an all time high, there are more defective ones being produced I would bet. But I doubt the % is any higher. And we will always here about the bad ones more then the countless amount of good ones.

 

[Old cop]

I’ve owned my 340PD as an EDC (pocket holstered) for several years, lots of range time (mostly standard & +P) and it still looks new.

 

[WR Moore]

A frame crack in the thin spot in the yoke cut isn't unknown in the steel frame Js. The line between proper barrel torque and too much is really, really fine. I'd expect the alloy frames to be more susceptible to cracking though.

 

[Baxter6551]

My early model 642 (serial BKExxxx) is currently at S&W being reviewed. After reading another post in the forum about it I checked mine and found the crack. Called customer service and they emailed a prepaid FedEx label. I shipped it back on 10/1, delivered 10/4 and they emailed 10/8 confirming receipt. I was told on Monday that the gun had been to the metal lab and that I would be contacted with their finding. That’s my Knife blade in photos pointing to the crack.
Mine was one of the original ones - I had traded my 60 for a 640 but as soon as the 642 came out I had to have that lighter weight for PD backup gun and traded 640 (yea yea I know - but it was HEAVY). I had never shot +p in it and round count over the 25 plus years was minimal. It was not marked for +P like the new ones. Mine had the off color finish between stainless barrel & cylinder vs the frame which had caused S&W to go to the black finish.
I included a letter requesting a black finish no lock in return (one can dream can’t one ? )

 

[JimCunn]

I've owned 5 J-frames over a 50+ year time frame. No problems with any of them. I currently have three Airweight 637-2 J-frames further lightened by another two ounces with titanium cylinders and bumped up in power with a 9mm conversion using 147 gr ammo. No problems with any of them, but frankly, they are consumables. If one should crack, it will go to the parts bin and I will buy another as a replacement. They have saved my Dad on multiple occasions, and are my favorite handgun by far.

 

[rockquarry]

I've owned 5 J-frames over a 50+ year time frame. No problems with any of them. I currently have three Airweight 637-2 J-frames further lightened by another two ounces with titanium cylinders and bumped up in power with a 9mm conversion using 147 gr ammo. No problems with any of them, but frankly, they are consumables. If one should crack, it will go to the parts bin and I will buy another as a replacement. They have saved my Dad on multiple occasions, and are my favorite handgun by far.

How much have these guns been fired? Most J-frame guns, lightweight or steel, see little in the way of use, so they hold up well.

 

[heeter3]

My early 90s 442 had a broken firing pin after 20 years of service.Other than that it's been carried everyday for about 25 years.

 

[Chubbs103]

I've been reading about the crack for years, but thankfully have never seen one in person.

My 442 Pro gets carried a lot, so I make sure I shoot it. I put 150 rds through it this past week-end. My hand is still sore. I try to put a couple hundred rounds a month through it. Usually 100 is my limit at one time. When/if I have any issues it will go back to S&W.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

This is a persistent myth. Depending on the situation--active shooter? Drive by? Gang robbery? you may just be getting started.

Same story for bear defense. Pundits hold that when Griz charges, you won't get off more than 1 or 2 rounds. Then you read the 93 Cases and see how many were protracted struggles.

I will not be going with you on any Seal team missions or crawl in the Grizzly cage at the zoo.

 

[Rock185]

We have a 642 with a CLW prefix that, thus far, has survived just fine. It was purchased new, and just used for carry, training and qualification. So not a high round count, even though it's 10+ years old. But I have to admit, that having seen some of the photos of the airweight guns with that longitudinal crack in the frame under the barrel, I've started to inspect our 642 in that area once in a while...

 

[7shooter]

Didn’t realize that the J’s were so flimsy and problematic.
I may donate mine to a Charity!
My 642 is out in my SUV right now.

I just changed my name to Charity.

 

[SuperMan]

I've only had three aluminum frame Js and two out of the three developed cracks under the barrel. One was a 50s vintage 42 and the other a 70s vintage 38. Had a 642 for a short period of time but decided it just wasn't worth the risk and sold it, replacing with a 649...just love the gun.

I once read that when the Airweight Js first came out S&W said they good for 300 rounds... I can see that because back in the 1950s no one really shot their guns very much.

Bob

 

[CCantu357]

It seems the durability of lightweight J-frames has always been a question. Even today, it seems they fall under the idea of carry a lot, fire a little. They might be rated for +P ammo, but I figure that standard pressure rounds would be better suited for these models. As my fellow Louisianian said, get the SP101 if you want to shoot magnums. Or a steel framed J-frame for +P extended use.

Either way, these guns serve a defensive purpose. They might not have the capacity of a 9mm. But Airweight J-frames fit where other guns don't.

 

[H Richard]

I believe the "lightweight" J Frames were never intended to be used as some people insist on using them. They were intended to be carried and only occasionally fired.

If you want to practice weekly, you need to have a all steel frame J Frame. If S&W would address this in their literature it would cause a lot fewer questions.

 

[chief38]

Over the past few months, I have noticed a few posts where people have had issues with J frames exhibiting extreme levels of wear despite low levels of use. Some have mentioned that S&W had replaced either the frame or the entire revolver, while others wrote about how they were stuck with an unusable revolver that Smith wouldn't stand behind.

Were any of these the 4XX or 6XX series Airweight revolvers, or were these the Scandium J frames?

Are there any issues with the Airweight J frame revolvers that a potential buyer should be aware of?

As always, thanks in advance for your help!

If you have read some of my posts over the past few years you already know I don't think too highly of the current production S&W' line up. That said, I own many vintage J Frames including a Nickel "I/J Frame from the first years production (1951). It was my Dad's back up gun, his off duty gun and his "side match" gun when he served as a Fed. He literally shot 10's of thousands of rounds through the little Revolver over the 60 years he owned it. After he died, I have shot hundreds of rounds through it. Now bare in mind, almost all ammo was standard velocity but a very few +P's have seen their way through the barrel too.

After 10's of thousands of rounds I have replaced the parts that wear such as the Hand, the Cylinder Bolt, all springs and even the Cylinder Ratchet assembly, but the frame, barrel and cylinder are still original and numbered. The barrel/cylinder gap measures 0.006" and the Cylnder locks up tight. The little Revolver now functions 100%, is still super accurate and while I no longer would opt to carry any 5 shot Revolver for SD, I would not be afraid to use it in a SD situation if that is what I had.

There was also an article written by Skeeter Skelton that I read in one of the gun rags 40 years ago where he states he had fired 1000 rounds of +P through a new at the time J frame and there was not any detrimental wear to the gun. It was a torture test of the often knocked J Frame that turned out to be more hype and BS than reality.

So if there is any reality to premature wear and tear with proper ammo used in one, I am truly not aware of it. NOW..... obviously a lightweight Aluminum Alloy gun WILL wear at a faster rate than a steel one (in the same configuration) but there are very few who dare shoot hot +P loads or Magnums through J Frames too often due to the "hurt" factor.

My other J Frames that were made in the 1960's, 70's, 80's and 90's have all been shot extensively and I have not replaced any parts due to wear. So can I say that J Frames wear "prematurely"? Not really. Will they wear faster than a K, L or N frame..... absolutely.