Asleep at the Switch

glowe

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s/n puts that in the Apr/May 1917 timeframe. Great look 4th change Model of 1905. Not a bad price.

My 1914 change 3 M&P


and my 1921 M&P
 
Wow I also would have bought it. Sorry you missed it. JIM
 
Am thinking that I missed a great gun at a way to low auction price? What do you all think? Is it a sign of the times with the Coronavirus scare?

I know it is a plain old 38 M&P, BUT in near perfect condition. How many of those actually exist today?? It sold for $350, plus $63 buyer's premium. Am I all wet about value of an M&P in this condition?

Smith & Wesson Pre 10 Revolver .38 spl |


Okay, it sold for $350 + $63 (18% buyer's premium). Then there's shipping which is UPS signature required - say $50. That puts it at $463 total for whoever the top bidder was. Oh, and unless the buyer has an FFL there's whatever fee the local dealer charges to receive the gun. Let's say $35 which now makes the total $498.

But there's no way of knowing if that was the bidder's top price. How high was he willing to go? How high would you be willing to go? Say you put your bid on top of his so it goes to $375. He bids again and it's now $400. Are you willing to go to $425, plus $76.50 premium plus $50 shipping plus $35 for the FFL? Now the total is $586.50.

Once the bid price gets to $500, the bid increments go to $50. Say the bidding tops out at $550. Total cost is now $734. Is this nice old Smith worth that much, to you?

Looking at final bid prices on auction house items like this is deceptive. Until you do the math and add in all the extra fees you don't know what it really cost, and you never know how high the other bidders might have been willing to go.
 
. . . and a silk panties drawer to boot! One can speculate all they want to guess where the price "might" have ended up, but the fact is that this one sold for a way low price. SCSW4 states an as new condition gun was worth $1200 in 2016 and Fine condition was worth $600. I was thinking a near $1000 value for that one, which to me would have not been out of line.
 
Those pre model 10's are pretty common, but that one is a real looker. Easily worth $500, however $1,000 seems kind of unreasonable to me.
 
Personally, I won't buy any without a heat treated cylinder, but you collector guys won't shoot it, anyway!

Nice looking gun.
 
The pristine condition on that M&P would make me worried about even handling it without white gloves, or working the action ! It is beautiful ! It looks to have gone for about half of it's real worth.

YMMV, but I would have brought that baby home and put three boxes of wad-cutters through it. :D
 
Those pre model 10's are pretty common, but that one is a real looker. Easily worth $500, however $1,000 seems kind of unreasonable to me.

Except it isn't a pre Model 10. It is a .38 Military & Police built in the WW I era. The M&Ps built after WW II and having the post war short action are pre Model 10s. The one shown by the OP is not one.
 
The reasoning in #7 is mathematically sound , BUT ...

How often do you see an M&P of that age and condition up for grabs? Look at the rear surface of the cylinder ... the end grain of the grip butt panels ...

I say rare opportunity and GREAT price.
 
Seems like a great price for what would be considered a plain Jane gun back in the day.
 
Like this?
KiJJn0Z.jpg
 
Personally, I won't buy any without a heat treated cylinder, but you collector guys won't shoot it, anyway!

Won't shoot it!! Why not? Like the one below?

I am from Michigan, but often feel that I should be from Missouri, the "Show Me" state. What I am always interested in is why people form opinions and what is the basis for these opinions? I would like to see just one example of a blown cylinder on a pre-1915 S&W. Or show one document that non-hardened cylinders were a problem?

Heat treating is not and was not a simple cut and dry process over 110 years ago. Many references to early heat treatments of various steels ended with enough embrittlement to cause the part to break due to the fact that heat treatment can easily end up with a more brittle and weaker part than non-hardened steel. It is known that, during heat treating, the part becomes stronger, but more brittle. Part of the value of the type of steel used in firearms is the ability to withstand shock loading and that means that the steel has to be somewhat ductile. Heat treating by nature, makes steel less ductile. Bottom line is that heat treatment has limits and the improvement in strength is not that great.

Standard structural steel tensile strength in 1910 was 55,000 psi to 65,000 psi without heat treating. 38 Special SAAMI limits are still 17,000 psi. Heat treating most likely added maybe 10% to those numbers to keep the steel from becoming too brittle. Most proof loads are only 25% higher than operating pressures, while a few were as high as 2X and still well below tensile strength limits.

So why did the company do this? One very plausible reason was that cylinders made before heat treating had cylinder stop shims inserted and that was a costly feature. Heat treating was a viable option to remove the shims and much cheaper. Second, the US Military required the Model 1917 to have heat treated cylinders, continuing to push the company in the direction of heat treating everything.
 

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