Assistance needed - Old break top single shot

[Starfire]

Hello all,

A friend of mine (older gentleman and not technologically inclined) is looking for information & hopefully a pricing estimate on an old S&W break-top single shot .22LR. There's no model number on the pistol itself, but there is a note that was acquired with it that says it's a:

"Target - New model #10969 Target model 10" barrel - Mint Antique."

No idea how accurate this is, as I cannot confirm it to any number on the gun itself.

He was told it was a competition pistol manufactured for the 1910 Olympics, and never used or fired. From the condition, it appears to never have been fired. There's NO scuffing or marks of any kind in the chamber, and not even a dry-fire mark.

Now... On to some pictures!

He's probably going to send off for the S&W Provenance letter on this one, but if anyone has information that may confirm this, or have any clue as to value, it would be much appreciated!

I do have a few more pics as well, but didn't want to overload this post unless needed.

Thanks!

~Starfire

 

[H. M. Pope]

That's a S&W 3rd Model SS Target but if # 10969 is the serial number I doubt it was made for the 1910 Olympics as that number is from around 1924.

A lot of SS's in that number range have the olympic chamber so maybe that's what he was told but I don't know where
"1910" comes from.
H. M. Pope

 

[rct269]

You have a 3rd Model Single Shot, a k a "a Perfected Target Pistol"--manufactured from maybe 1910 to the early 20's. The value of a virtually as new example is probably in the $1500-$2000 neighborhood----unless! Unless it is fitted with the Olympic chamber. Place a .22 Long Rifle cartridge in the chamber. If it goes all the way in, the chamber is standard. If it protrudes from the chamber, and would require a fair amount of force to seat it all the way in, then you have an Olympic chamber---and you have a more valuable commodity---say $2500 (+/-).

Ralph Tremaine

The serial number will/should be on the front strap of the grip frame---to the rear of the trigger guard. It will/should also appear on the underside of the barrel latch/rear sight----and on the barrel----in the recess where the latch is---facing to the rear of the pistol. IF---BIG IF, either the latch and/or the barrel is not numbered---or has a different number than that on the frame, then you have what I call a "put together" gun. I also call it junk----very pretty junk in this case; but junk nonetheless. Given the condition of this gun, I'd be surprised if the numbers didn't match.

 

[glowe]

That is a very nice S&W 3rd Model Single Shot, or as also known as the Perfected Model SS pistol.

Three models of single shot pistols were made and the major difference between this one and the previous 2 models is that this pistol could be fired double-action as well as single-action and the frame came from the 32 S&W Model 1903 hand ejector. There were 6,949 manufactured between 1909 and 1924. Your pistol was made near the end of production, so did not see use in the 1910 Olympics.

This pistol came with a standard 22 LR barrel or an Olympic barrel that had a shorter chamber that forced the bullet into the rifilng when seated. Not all Olympic barrel Perfected SS pistols were used in the Olympics and were available to the public as well.

Value is anothe story. These pistols are gaining in value and yours is an excellect example, so there are 2 premiums here - high condition and Olympic barrel. I would only guess the value of $1500 or maybe more.

I see that I type too slow and you already have some information from our experts.

 

[Starfire]

RCT269:

Awesome to know! I'll have to have him check it tomorrow. Thanks a ton!

Glowe & H. M. Pope thanks as well. All good things to know. He's going to be happy with the replies here.

~Starfire

 

[H. M. Pope]

glowe,
I don't think the Olympic "chamber" was made by just using a short chamber, if that was the case you would never be able to seat a long rifle cartridge because you would not only be seating the lead bullet into the rifling you would be trying to seat the brass case into the rifling also and that's not going to happen.

Usually the way these Olympic chambers were made was by doing a 0 free bore or almost 0 free bore type chamber, this way the lead bullet would have to be forced into the 0 free bore right into the rifling, and it had a standard long rifle chamber, not a short one.
H. M. Pope

 

[glowe]

H. M., sorry for not being more accurate in my reply, but I was referring to the fact that the Olympic LR chamber is "shorter" than the standand LR chamber. Your explanation is much more precise.

 

[RIrunner]

Chambering into an Olympic barrel

Hello,
Yesterday I received a 3rd model Perfected SS with an Olympic barrel. I took it to the range and tried to chamber a target round. I was very surprised by the round not seating and realized that the Perfected had an Olympic barrel. I did not wish to exert undo pressure on the round. My question is how much force to exert? Can someone describe the event?
Thanks,
Denis

 

[Tom K]

Hello,
Yesterday I received a 3rd model Perfected SS with an Olympic barrel. I took it to the range and tried to chamber a target round. I was very surprised by the round not seating and realized that the Perfected had an Olympic barrel. I did not wish to exert undo pressure on the round. My question is how much force to exert? Can someone describe the event?
Thanks,
Denis

Mine has an Olympic chamber and I can't fully seat a round by hand. I rely on (carefully!) closing the action to seat the round the rest of the way.

 

[RIrunner]

Thanks Tom.
I'll try but slowly.
Denis

 

[H Richard]

I understand many competitors back then used a piece of soft Pine or other wood to push the round fully into the chamber as after awhile the thumb got too sore from pushing the rounds in.

 

[H. M. Pope]

I understand many competitors back then used a piece of soft Pine or other wood to push the round fully into the chamber as after awhile the thumb got too sore from pushing the rounds in.

Correct, if your going to shoot a full 50 shot slow fire course you will have a very sore thumb. I know this from personal experience of doing it. Closing the gun on a live round and expecting to fully seat the round will not give you good accuracy, but a lot depends on the round being used, CCI target ammo is usually the hardest to seat because it has much longer bullet bearing surface than all of the other rounds.
H. M. Pope

 

[RIrunner]

H.M. and H.
Thanks for the tips. SK target round chambered easily with help from a pine handle of a 1" paint brush. A new addition to my 22 shooting bag.
Denis

 

[ol777gunnerz]

Model 91 Single Shot

The thing everyone missed, U.S. Olympic pistol teams were captained by Dr. RH Sayre in 1908, 1912,1920, & 1924, there were no Olympics in 1910!

 

[rct269]

The thing everyone missed, U.S. Olympic pistol teams were captained by Dr. RH Sayre in 1908, 1912,1920, & 1924, there were no Olympics in 1910!

Thank you for that, sir!! I was about to raise a ruckus on that very point. Jinks does say the Olympic Chamber was developed for the 1910 Olympic Team-----Team----not games. Not knowing the first thing about it, I decided it was reasonable to suppose there was a team extant pretty much all the time. Whether or not the team personnel remained constant from one Olympics to the next probably depended upon their practice scores during the off years----losers get to go home early.

Then again, Jinks' comment could've been a "typo". Given that the "chamber" was developed for the 1910 Team, it has to strike pretty much anybody as strange that virtually no 3rd models were shipped with that "chamber" until 1920-21------another mystery for the detectives out there.

Ralph Tremaine