Astra?

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Need a kick in the Astra. Any experts that can ID this from pic.
Owner don’t know jack about it, was WW2 bring home supposedly
I can’t tell anything from pics. 400 or 600? Going to involve 2 hr trip to buy it. I’m going to assign $300 value, is that ball park? I don’t care Largo or Luger, pistol will just be trade stock.
 

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Yes, 600. The Germans bought them from Spain in WW2. About half (?) were delivered before the Allies cut the supply chain. Post war some of the remaining guns went to West Germany for police use, some hit the surplus market. The 600 was in 9mm Luger, not Largo.

Interesting design. Straight blowback. Recoil spring is stiff, too stiff for my surgically repaired shoulder. Take down is........a challenge. The knurled piece is NOT threaded. Many Astras show evidence of someone taking a wrench to this piece and twisting. Your value estimate is about right.
 
I've seen only photos of these guns since the '60s. Are they of decent quality?
 
There was a number of Astra 600's with fake nazi markings that it the market a number of years ago. Southern Ohio Gun distributed some of the fake marked versions. I believe they were duped by whomever they purchased them from.

$300 would be a bargain for a decent Astra 600.
 
They also will spit out empty cases in any and all directions. The only consistency to their ejection pattern is inconsistency.
 
Although funky-looking (they've been called "the plumbers nightmare, LOL), the Nazis loved the Spanish Astra pistols in WWII because of their excellent quality. They bought a few Astra 400's, but they were chambered for 9mm Largo; so, they asked Astra if they could make them in 9mm Para. The Astra 600 was the result. They also bought a number of Astra 300's in .32 acp and .380--which were highly prized by Luftwaffen pilots because of their size. Here is a picture of my 600 with Waffenamt marks; it's a bring-back with a Luftwaffen insignia added to the holster. The belt with the swastika and the inscription "God is with us" was not part of the official rig, but the GI that brought mine back had it with the pistol and the properly marked German Army holster.

I'm attaching a table of what serial numbers went where. If the one you are going to see saw service in the German Army, it is practically being given away. Oh, check out online how much they are going for (the 300's, the 400's, and the 600's). You'll be surprised. Thank goodness there are a lot of people that don't know jack about them; its how we collectors get lucky..
 

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Back when 400s were more commonly seen, it was considered OK to use 9x19 and .38 Super ammunition in them if you didn't have any 9mm Largo, and I have done that. But at least for 9x19, it is not a good idea. They are challenging to disassemble and reassemble. They are pure blowback, and recoil is none too pleasant.
 
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I have a 600 that I bought years ago on one of the auction sites. Not Nazi marked, excellent condition, very high quality. The nick name I remember seeing was "pipe wrench". Very accurate but has the heaviest trigger pull that I have ever seen on any gun. $300 for a nice one is probably half or less than current GB prices.
 
Be wary of 400s without an inspection. Many have been fired with 38 Super ammo which is hotter than the original 9mm Largo and have cracks in the slide around the ejection port.
 
I had Stars and Spanish Destroyer carbine. Used 38Super brass with thinned rims to load for them. The 38Super’s rims were hard on the Stars extractor.
About 25-30yrs ago dipsticks were buying the Star, not knowing it was 9mm Largo. Then the “savings” was passed along when they realized they fouled up.
 
There was a number of Astra 600's with fake nazi markings that it the market a number of years ago. Southern Ohio Gun distributed some of the fake marked versions. I believe they were duped by whomever they purchased them from.

$300 would be a bargain for a decent Astra 600.

SOG was guilty but it wasn't Astra 600's, they were peddling faked Nazi marked Star Model B's. Those that were faked were originally not marked in any fashion and were from the Bulgarian contract.
 
Very well made, all machined. Easy TD and full disassembly is not bad either.
Most small parts that held in place with pins, the pins are 'L' shaped and the longer leg is a slip fit. The Short leg is for simply getting a hold of and pulling the pin from the frame or slide to disassemble the part.

Yes the TD for Field strip is easy but a lot of people instantly think the knurled ring at the front of the slide should be unscrewed for some reason. They often show plier marks from the attempt.

The ring is for further disassembly but you are working against the recoil spring and it's disassembly when removing it so care must be taken.


Heavy recoil spring as they are a straight blow-back action and a heavy pistol overall.

But they are generally accurate and reliable. Most have a decent trigger pull.
They were originally all Rust Blued. That left the inside surfaces 'In the White' which is/was the classic way of finishing for European firearms.

Many of the 600 Model went to the W German Police and Security forces after WW2. Some have markings on the frame from that service and the issue holsters from their post WW2 service included.

The 400 is the 9mmLargo cal. The old marketing scheme was that the gun was designed to fire everything from 380acp, to 9mmLuger, to 9mmLargo and others.
Old ads sometimes included the Italian 9mm Glisenti round as well. A near copy of the 9mmLuger in case specs but loaded to less pressure IIRC.
Well,,they will very often fire using the assortment(s). But you have anywhere from a few .000 to nearly a 1/4" of excess headspace when doing so.

The only thing that makes the magic work is the pistols extractor. The extractor holds (hopefully) on to the rim of the mongrel 9mmcaliber round and keeps it tight or reasonably so against the breech face.

If it doesn't, the shorter 9mm's can slip down into the chamber in front of the extractor hook. Some will still fire as the Astra's firing pin is very long. If it can reach one of those that's in front of the breech face and extractor,,it can fire it.
But the case will then kick back upon firing and strike the claw of the extractor, If that happens, the extractor can break off or sometimes the extractor is blown from the slide.
Sometimes nothing happens.

Safe to say the pistols were not designed to fire the entire line of all 9mm pistol rounds.
But it made a good marketing plug in the 50's and 60's to get these things sold for the $12 they were asking for them.
There's never been a real good reliable supply of Largo ammo around till the 1990's when the flood of Star pistols came in that were surplused by the Spanish Police , Military and Security. Even then is was somewhat elderly ammo and most corrosive.

If you find one marked '38' on the slide it's had the breech face ever so slightly opened up so the 38ACP round will function in the gun.
38acp,,not the 38Super though they use the same case

Being a semi rimmed rd, the slight extra rim dia space is generally needed, but some guns function just fine w/o the mod.
You'll see the marking on other 9mmLargo caliber pistols as well.
Some done by the importers, many done by the mfg'r for surplus sale when they were destined for the USA. Star did many like that.

38Super in a blow back Astra 400?
Sure it will 'work'. Many will tell you about the success of doing so.
But the pistol was just not designed for the 38Super rd. The spring balance/slide weight/hammer spring resistance is all that is in play.
It's always made me wonder when people say it's a 'must' to have all new springs installed in a Luger, P38 or other vintage locked breech pistol before shooting the caliber ammo it was designed for. But then will cheerfully stuff 38Super ammo into a blowback Astra 400. and say ..
'See,,It works!'

But it's alot like the shoot/don't shoot back and forth over Low# 03 Springfields or Damascus Bbl'd shotguns.

The 9mmLargo is a 9x23 metric designation.
Winchester & Colt came out with a 9x23 pistol caliber back in the 90's.
These Winchester/Colt 9x23 factory rounds run the pressures in the 50K to 55K psi range.
Way more than any of the old 9mmLargo pistol were ever meant to handle.

9mmSteyr pistol round will work in the Largo guns and is pressure wise right in the same range as the 9mmLargo.
 
Ballistically and dimensionally, there is not much difference between the Largo and the Steyr, but the Steyr's OAL is a little greater and cartridges may hang up in a Largo's magazine. The 9x23 Winchester round is dimensionally very close to the Largo, but the chamber pressure is much greater,and its performance us in the .357 bracket. The 9x23 Win case wall is substantially thicker than those of the Steyr, Largo, and .38 Super to better contain the high pressure, especially in pistols without fully supported chambers. I am very familiar with the 9x23 Winchester, and have loaded and fired thousands of them.
 

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