At my wit's end: 500 Mag Performance Center

[Zombie John]

I got a great deal when purchasing my 500 Magnum 10.5" Performance Center revolver. It was a dream gun of mine and never really thought I'd ever have one, but the stars aligned just right and I got it.

However, upon buying a scope and mounts for it, I found that it consistently shot about 2" low from 20 yards out to 60 yards. I tried two types of ammo (Federal Fusion and Doubletap), I also changed mounts. Nothing worked. I returned the scope (Bushnell) and bought a more expensive scope (Nikon) and more expensive rings (Nikon steel rings).

It shot exactly the same as before: 2" low no matter what. The elevation adjustment was maxed out and it still wouldn't shoot to point of aim.

So I sent the gun back to S&W and asked them to take a look at it. My turnaround time was pretty good (<2 weeks, IIRC) but when I got the gun back, S&W said the gun was within their quality standards.

Okay. Fine.

I cut up a coke can and shimmed the scope. I still don't think a PC revolver that MSRP'd at the store for $1,600 should have to have a coke can shoved under the scope to hit POA, but whatever.

I got it to hit POA and just kind of had to "get over" the shimmed scope.

But last night, while looking at the gun, I noticed that it's out of time on two chambers. I started by pulling the hammer back extremely slow and the cylinder stop failed to lock the cylinder into place on two chambers multiple times.

I began to pull the hammer back a little faster -- normal shooting speed -- and found that the two chambers still were failing to lock up.

It even did it in DA.

I took a q-tip and some CLP and cleaned the cylinder stop notches on the cylinder, the gear on the extractor and around the cylinder stop. It wasn't as pronounced or easy to do anymore, but it still fails to lock up on two chambers with a slow pull of the hammer. And one of the chambers still fails to lock up in DA.

Gun has about 120 rounds through it. And I don't "cowboy" it.

A couple questions:

1. Is this a problem? I'd hate to wait a couple weeks and go to the trouble of sending the gun back just to have S&W tell me the gun meets their quality standards again. Waste of time.

2. Is the gun safe to shoot as is? At this point, I'm considering trading the gun but don't want to be responsible for someone having a kaboom due to a round going off when it's off-center.

3. Just in general, what do you think? This was a dream gun for me and any trade I make would feel like a step down. I used to be a huge Smith and Wesson fan. I've got an M&P40 that's been all over the country with me and a 4006 built in 1990 that I love to shoot. My first CCW was a Bodyguard 38.

However, I don't think a gun should have to be shimmed when it's main purpose is to be a premier hunting revolver. I also don't think it should go out of time under 200 rounds.

 

[Black Knight]

1. Is it a problem?
Yes. It should preform flawlessly. The fact it doesn't should be your indicator.
2. Is the gun safe to shoot?
In my opinion if you can not use all the charge holes as it is designed then it could be unsafe. Imagine what could happen if a round that powerful hit the frame or forcing cone. With a less powerful round it would shave the bullet. Who knows what could happen with this round.

3. In general, what do you think?
Someone did not do their job when it came to quality control. I would send it back and advise them of the number of rounds fired and what is going on with it. Tell them you would like to be contacted by a supervisor so you can talk about the problem and what they are going to do to make it right.


I hope you kept the receipt for it in case you need to return it for a refund. Today there are very few craftsmen even in the gun industry and because so few take pride in their work customers sometimes get the short end of the stick. I hope your experience turns out better.

 

[old bear]

The only thing I can think of, when you returned your revolver for an accuracy problem that is all Smith and Wesson checked. I’d send it back again to have the timing issues checked and repaired if necessary. Best of luck..

 

[Zombie John]

The only thing I can think of, when you returned your revolver for an accuracy problem that is all Smith and Wesson checked. I’d send it back again to have the timing issues checked and repaired if necessary. Best of luck..

Yes, absolutely. At the time of the first return, I was not aware of the timing issue.

I guess I'll be calling them this morning.

 

[jh9]

I started by pulling the hammer back extremely slow and the cylinder stop failed to lock the cylinder into place on two chambers multiple times.

Try it again with empties in the cylinder.

All of them need it, tbh, but especially the newer extractors that are not pinned need cases in the cylinder to diagnose whether or not timing is correct.

 

[Zombie John]

Try it again with empties in the cylinder.

All of them need it, tbh, but especially the newer extractors that are not pinned need cases in the cylinder to diagnose whether or not timing is correct.

Good idea. I'll try that.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Welcome aboard from Wyoming.

Please keep us in the loop as your story progresses.

I've had my 10½" PC 500 since 2003. I've not scoped it, and I've not had the problems you describe. I hope the company takes care of yours.

All the best,

 

[bigggbbruce]

redacted......

 

[86ed]

Try it again with empties in the cylinder.

All of them need it, tbh, but especially the newer extractors that are not pinned need cases in the cylinder to diagnose whether or not timing is correct.

Revolver noob here.

Are the pins you're referring to on the cylinder that match to holes on the extractor star that would help rigidize/prevent the star from turning independently of the cylinder?

My 686 no dash has them but I've read the later revisions removed them. For the OP's case, would this be a factor for the ultra slow DA pull described? My extractor seems to fit so well the pins look to me redundant.

 

[BillyMagg]

Revolver noob here.

Are the pins you're referring to on the cylinder that match to holes on the extractor star that would help rigidize/prevent the star from turning independently of the cylinder?

My 686 no dash has them but I've read the later revisions removed them. For the OP's case, would this be a factor for the ultra slow DA pull described? My extractor seems to fit so well the pins look to me redundant.

With the new extractor design they "should be", LOL, with Smith and Wesson in the summer of 2018?? well, your guess is as good as mine??

Really, quality control has been an issue for a long time,, due to product liability insurance, and the outrageous cost of quality labor?? to get the quality, you have to have a quantity of labor to have the few that can do whatever you need done..

We should have had "tort reform" about 1977, but everybody these days is a "victim", or so it would seem??

 

[Zombie John]

Try it again with empties in the cylinder.

All of them need it, tbh, but especially the newer extractors that are not pinned need cases in the cylinder to diagnose whether or not timing is correct.

Went home at lunch and tried this. Same results.

 

[ruggyh]

Send it back for your timing issues
Be very specific as to you observation and correction you are seeking

What height rings are you using?

Are you mounting the scope on the integrated rail on the shroud or on a rail mounted in place of the front sites?

You are using a handgun scope?

While I have seen problems with the integrated rails they are usually running out of adjustment at distance.

Typically you sight at 50 to 100 yards.

be safe
Ruggy

 

[Zombie John]

The gun was gone for four weeks. I had the misfortune of sending it in right in the middle of their summer shutdown.

Gun seems to work fine.

I've seen a few people say their 500s went out of time easily. I have a theory: Could it be that the 500s are notoriously looked at but never bought by customers in gun stores? I know that my gun is dated 2013 and I bought it in 2017, so it spent 4 years on a shelf somewhere.

Could my timing issues have come from a bunch of yay-hoos cowboying my revolver for years before handing it back to the salesman?

 

[Sevens]

I believe the biggest reason the timing is/was questionable is because of colossal mass and inertia. S&W, in 120+ years of hand ejectors, has only ever once made a more massive cylinder than your .500, and that is the slightly heavier .460 cylinder.

I'd say keep an eye on it and keep making S&W fix it or replace it.

 

[ruggyh]

I believe the biggest reason the timing is/was questionable is because of colossal mass and inertia. S&W, in 120+ years of hand ejectors, has only ever once made a more massive cylinder than your .500, and that is the slightly heavier .460 cylinder.

I'd say keep an eye on it and keep making S&W fix it or replace it.

The 460 cylinders are heavier than the 500 cylinders

The Janz 500 and 460 cylinders are heavier than the S&W x-frame cylinders

be safe
Ruggy

 

[MJFlores]

The biggest problem here is entrusting your dream to modern day S&W. Such as shame. If you can stomach it, keep sending it back on their dime...over and over and over until it comes back exactly like it should have been in the first place. Post the progress here and tell them you'll be doing just that, also do it on Youtube. It'll eventually come back right because the right monkey will get assigned to the job and will luck out and actually fix it. After it's fixed you'll still have that crappy finish and the lock but it'll at least function like revolvers always have for the pat 150 years. I wish everyone would just stop buying their new revolvers...even for a month. They'd have to improve or go out of business. OP, I honestly hate reading stories like yours..it's not right. What a dream crusher. I've been there myself. Hang in there and I hope it gets fixed.

 

[Narragansett]

The gun was gone for four weeks. I had the misfortune of sending it in right in the middle of their summer shutdown.

Gun seems to work fine.

I've seen a few people say their 500s went out of time easily. I have a theory: Could it be that the 500s are notoriously looked at but never bought by customers in gun stores? I know that my gun is dated 2013 and I bought it in 2017, so it spent 4 years on a shelf somewhere.

Could my timing issues have come from a bunch of yay-hoos cowboying my revolver for years before handing it back to the salesman?

Sometimes thay hang around. I bought a 29 classic DX in mid 1995 NIB. The test date on the target was Aug, 1992

 

[Zombie John]

Shot the gun this weekend. Did just fine.

Went home and checked the take up/timing.

It's off again after 9 shots.

I checked it a handful of times when I got it back and it was fine. I fired 9 shots and it fails to lock up with very light drag on the cylinder.

As someone said in a youtube video about this very issue, "It may not be that bad right now, but it's not like it's an issue that will get any better."

I think I'm done with this one, guys. I can't stomach sending it off again.

A BFR in .45-70 does the same things this gun does and ammo is so cheap you don't HAVE to reload for it ($29 for Winchester 300gr Ballistic Silvertip at LGS) and you can find it anywhere. The BFR is uglier, but who cares.

I've had quite a few S&Ws over the years (4006, Bodyguard 38, M&P40) and thought they were all great. But after this gun, I'm not so much of a S&W fanboy anymore.

 

[Chukar60]

OP, you have the patience of a saint. I dont think I would have stuck with it that long.

 

[Dieseltech56]

I have a PC 10.5" 500. I bought it for trade bait, it was another one of those lightly used deals that was too good to pass up. I haven't shot it yet, I probably should just to see