At the store this morning.

[m1gunner]

I will not open carry in town, even though I may legally do so. I often open carry while doing farm work, and while hunting or scouting.

Anyone that wants to open carry has that option here, but to me it is kin to talking politics or religion with strangers. Some things are best kept private.

 

[McBear]

What's up McBear? As surprising as you may find this, we disagree on some aspects of your post. I agree we need to educate rather than demean the middle of the spectrum group. It's to our benefit. However, the kind of behavior he experienced indicates libtards at work and they are beyond remediation. If your in a crowd, yes, be nice, but acting in a way designed to change their mind is pointless.

"They don't live in ignorance or denial, they live in a world that accepts the realities of probabilities." There is a 100% probability when SHTF ala Katrina I'm going to hand these types bacon and turn the dog loose. They "knew it all," good luck with that. With all of the potential game changers out there, terrorism, weather etc if they are not marginally prepared I would submit, I would submit the "Antis" are the ones bucking the odds. Be someplace where the grocery stores do not open for a week and aid does not come and see what happens, it does not take much for civilization to recede. I've seen it firsthand. JMO.

Have a good 4th Sir.

On another thread on this forum there is a discussion about the civility that is occurring with all the power outages and the only example of violence was NYC in 1977. NYC in 1977 [year of Son of Sam] there was violence everywhere, not just during the power outage.

I have friends in Baltimore right now, most of what they are doing in the outage is sweating and cutting trees for others. Today she posted a pic of her flying a 172 over the Bay as a bit of R&R.

But back to my point...Katrina is not, by itself a gun carrying event [unless the "what kind of sidearm do you carry to protect against a hurricane?" thread exist], but you are correct the SHTF CAN occur after that kind of event. But most folks, the statistical vast majority never, ever see that potential for violence. So for that majority, the need to carry a weapon daily is an abstract consideration.

And there is certainly no reason to label them "libtard" or "ignorant" because they made their decision. I know many conservatives who choose not to carry for any number of reasons and I know folks who are excruciatingly smart who draw that conclusion. Adversarial labeling does nothing to move the ball on either side. As far as changing minds...I have found, through personal experience that I don't change minds demanding my rights but have better luck fully understanding the reasoning behind the objections that others have and letting them see through my deeds what I am, rather than telling them what I am.

To be honest, I see no reason to open carry, but that is MY personal opinion only. As others have pointed out above, it leads to issues that do not need to come up time and again. Sometimes, like it or not open carry perpetuates a negative stereotype. An interesting example. Last year an open carry group in Lexington decided to have a Lexington Open Carry Adopt-A-Highway Litter Pickup on a pretty busy section of a four lane highway. The idea was to show normal folks doing normal stuff to remove the stigma of open carry. It didn't work out that way in the public perception. It was an idea that did not work as hoped. Perception is well more than half the battle.

 

[Marshwheeling]

Never understood the mentality of someone that harasses an armed individual.

Harassing, perhaps, but I don't see why anybody should refrain from expressing an opinion or even giving someone a piece of ones mind, just because he is carrying. After all, isn't the man who is legally armed presumed to be saner and more rational than the general run, less prone to rise to the petty provocation. I would not like to think that my neighbor or anyone I might meet on the street is someone to be feared just because he is carrying a gun.

 

[StatesRightist]

On another thread on this forum there is a discussion about the civility that is occurring with all the power outages and the only example of violence was NYC in 1977. NYC in 1977 [year of Son of Sam] there was violence everywhere, not just during the power outage.

I have friends in Baltimore right now, most of what they are doing in the outage is sweating and cutting trees for others. Today she posted a pic of her flying a 172 over the Bay as a bit of R&R.

But back to my point...Katrina is not, by itself a gun carrying event [unless the "what kind of sidearm do you carry to protect against a hurricane?" thread exist], but you are correct the SHTF CAN occur after that kind of event. But most folks, the statistical vast majority never, ever see that potential for violence. So for that majority, the need to carry a weapon daily is an abstract consideration.

And there is certainly no reason to label them "libtard" or "ignorant" because they made their decision. I know many conservatives who choose not to carry for any number of reasons and I know folks who are excruciatingly smart who draw that conclusion. Adversarial labeling does nothing to move the ball on either side. As far as changing minds...I have found, through personal experience that I don't change minds demanding my rights but have better luck fully understanding the reasoning behind the objections that others have and letting them see through my deeds what I am, rather than telling them what I am.

To be honest, I see no reason to open carry, but that is MY personal opinion only. As others have pointed out above, it leads to issues that do not need to come up time and again. Sometimes, like it or not open carry perpetuates a negative stereotype. An interesting example. Last year an open carry group in Lexington decided to have a Lexington Open Carry Adopt-A-Highway Litter Pickup on a pretty busy section of a four lane highway. The idea was to show normal folks doing normal stuff to remove the stigma of open carry. It didn't work out that way in the public perception. It was an idea that did not work as hoped. Perception is well more than half the battle.

I may have been unclear, my labeling applied to the gentleman's hecklers, not the unprepared. If people choose blissful delusion that is there option, my issue is with the vocal opposition.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I guess it's human nature to want to "tag" people into categories that fit our own concepts. "Many people really don't want to be informed. They simply want to have their personal opinions confirmed and validated." The many shades of gray that was refereed to above is a better description of any society, maybe especially ours, where there is still some modicum of free thought, even with PC. For example, I am a Southerner who married into a family whose roots are NYC. My wife was raised in the South, but her parents were Brooklyn and The Bronx-died in the wool Republican-Conservatives-he a Korea era Navy Vet, and to them guns were evil, unless carried by LEO's. Not an unusual situation in some parts of our society. Some folks just don't like guns!!!

 

[DeadAye]

Proper response:
*Oh, you must not have heard about the rabid dogs.*

 

[sasu]

they live in a world that accepts the realities of probabilities.

That explanation does not fly.

The probability of becoming a victim of a violent attack is fortunately very, very low. But if it happens, the consenquences can be serious.

Risk assessment has two components: the probability of something happening and the damage caused if the risk is realised.

 

[jlrhiner]

I think I would have responded with something like "so, your unarmed. I guess that means I could do anything I wanted to you, and you could do nothing to stop me. I never want to know what that feels like".

 

[McBear]

I may have been unclear, my labeling applied to the gentleman's hecklers, not the unprepared. If people choose blissful delusion that is there option, my issue is with the vocal opposition.

I understand. The assumption was that they were liberal. That may or may not have been the case. Many in that middle ground, and many do have opinions are from both sides of the fence on things like open carry. It is why I chose to quietly carry on hikes for decades, even when I had more convenient options. Some of the most annoying questions on the subject I ever received was from the wife of a good friend, best described as "the local church lady", and as conservative as they come. Had one called her a libtard, after she quit laughing the tongue lashing would be unbearable. Oh, and she later became my mother in law. And later my ex mother in law. Apparently my situational awareness was temporarily blinded by...well, we'll leave that part alone.

 

[quneur]

"what kind of sidearm do you carry to protect against a hurricane?"

I don't think there's a CTG that could kill a hurricane. Go to the next hurricane and shoot it in the eye and report back.

My response would probably have been:

Irritant: Why do you carry a gun?

Me: To protect myself in case some madman comes in to rob the store. I'd rather have a chance then none at all.

Irritant: And if someone going to rob the store, they are going to shoot you first. How will that work out for you?

Me: Yep, and would that give you enough time to get away if they are concentrating on killing me?

Okay, said my piece before they move this thread.

 

[McBear]

That explanation does not fly.

The probability of becoming a victim of a violent attack is fortunately very, very low. But if it happens, the consenquences can be serious.

Risk assessment has two components: the probability of something happening and the damage caused if the risk is realised.

Yep...and folks realize that. Just like they realize they can die in a plane crash or that an asteroid can wipe life off the planet. If the risk of violent attack is so low that it does not permeate your daily concern, if they live in a world where they do not know folks who have had violence against them, that helps define their reality and the probabilities associated with it.

If I use my current circumstance, my current town, neighborhood, circle of friends, places I go, I run an extremely limited chance of interacting with violence. It does not mean it won't happen, just that the probabilities suggest it won't. But being an old Eagle Scout, I am always prepared. Then again, I have a go bag in all my cars in case I have a problem or if a natural disaster were to wander my way. I also keep an M&P45 handy, mainly because I can't do what I could when I was young and immortal.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Here is one fact that cannot be disputed. If the OP was carrying concealed, none of this would have happened. OC is fine on your property or out in the woods.

James

 

[Evil One]

you will be the first to go if a thug is looking for trouble.

This is popular for people who dont like OC to state.
Now, find me a list of instances where this happens... OTHER than LEOs.
I can give you a LONG LONG list of people who were not open carrying who have been assaulted, robbed, and/or killed.


Jim

 

[jrhoney]

I usually am faced with a few longhaired hippy types when I head to the natural grocers (fresh vegetables make for better cooked food I find) and they ask me what says I have the right to carry a gun in public. I respond by informing them it says so on that piece of paper they most likely have never studied. Just after the bit about the guarantees of their rights to free speech, religion, and the press.

Am I being a bit sarcastic when I say this? Maybe a little, but ignorance of my/our civil liberties and basic human rights is unforgivable in my eyes.

 

[jimmyj]

How did those two "Sheep" wander away from the Flock?

 

[scooter123]

I'm not a real fan of Open Carry and do my best to keep my handgun concealed. However, if someone were to spot that I was carrying and were to ask I would keep my anwer pretty brief.

Because it's a right established by both the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Michigan. IMO that is all the answer that is required and really doesn't need to be expanded upon.

 

[pharmer]

Open carry in a store, bank, McDonalds, etc= "shoot me first" to any miscreant who planned a quick score on the day you needed a happy meal. Joe

 

[MrAmbassador]

I would have said, I want the rest of you cowboys to know something, there's a new sheriff in town. And his name is Reggie Hammond. So y'all be cool. Right on.
Eddie Murphy, 48 hours.

 

[Evil One]

Open carry in a store, bank, McDonalds, etc= "shoot me first" to any miscreant who planned a quick score on the day you needed a happy meal. Joe

Yet again... show us that long list of Open Carry civilians who have their dead bodies littered in stores all across this country.
If a civilian with a gun is involved in a bad way, and getting shot/stabbed/assaulted IS bad, the MSM LOVES to crow about it.
And they are not doing it.
You are projecting your paranoia as fact.
Most... MOST, criminals are looking for an easy score and as little personal risk as possible.
An obviously armed person doesnt generally fall into the minimal risk category.
Please, show me that LONG list of people who have been shot because they open carried.


Jim

 

[amazingflapjack]

With a big friendly smile, I would suggest they reference the U.S. Constitution, specifically the second amendment, as if I was helping someone from a foreign country. Then I would go about my business. "A gentle reply turns away wrath." No need to be augmentative, you can still smack them if they get physical.

 

[feralmerril]

I am not going to be the hit of the day with this, but a lot of this is starting to get immature, juvenile and rediculous to me. Why not also get a bullet proof vest, wear handcuffs and pepper spray? This still isnt downtown bagdad. When it starts to get like the mideast or old tombstone maybe I will start packing while mowing my lawn, and keeping my gun in arms reach while I shower. Grow up!

 

[NMPinNYC]

OP - you missed the most important detail - what was the shiny gun you were carrying? <grin>



Best regards,
Nick.

 

[COL Jagdog]

I am not going to be the hit of the day with this, but a lot of this is starting to get immature, juvenile and rediculous to me. Why not also get a bullet proof vest, wear handcuffs and pepper spray? This still isnt downtown bagdad. When it starts to get like the mideast or old tombstone maybe I will start packing while mowing my lawn, and keeping my gun in arms reach while I shower. Grow up!

Re: "This still isn't downtown Baghdad"

Body armor -- check

handcuffs/pepper spray -- not needed -- we weren't doing "catch and release" with AQI (Al Qaeda in Iraq)
(although we did use flexcuffs for captured suspected insurgents/terrorists)

encrypted radio - (for close air support, mortar support, medevac) - check

Frags -- check

M-4 with 12 magazines and M-9 with 4 magazines - check

Battle buddies with assorted M-4's, M-249's along with assigned tactical vehicles with M-240's and M2's -- check

Peace of mind when equipped as above: priceless

 

[Alpo]

Yet again... show us that long list of Open Carry civilians who have their dead bodies littered in stores all across this country.
If a civilian with a gun is involved in a bad way, and getting shot/stabbed/assaulted IS bad, the MSM LOVES to crow about it.
And they are not doing it.
You are projecting your paranoia as fact.
Most... MOST, criminals are looking for an easy score and as little personal risk as possible.
An obviously armed person doesnt generally fall into the minimal risk category.
Please, show me that LONG list of people who have been shot because they open carried.


Jim

I'd also like the see the long list of petty criminals who decided, on the spur of the moment, to change risking five years for knocking over a stop-n-rob to risking the gas chamber for murder.

This sounds so much like "always carry factory ammo in your defensive gun, because if you use handloads the prosecutor will tear you apart on the stand - 'you weren't satisfied with ordinary factory ammo, like a cop or other decent citizen might use, but had to go into your secret weapons laboratory and make special killer bullets!!!' "-

I keep hearing that, but no one can point me to a news story showing that ever happening. Paranoia.

 

[DeadAye]

I am not going to be the hit of the day with this, but a lot of this is starting to get immature, juvenile and rediculous to me. Why not also get a bullet proof vest, wear handcuffs and pepper spray? This still isnt downtown bagdad. When it starts to get like the mideast or old tombstone maybe I will start packing while mowing my lawn, and keeping my gun in arms reach while I shower. Grow up!

We're in a small town *out in the country*.
Idiots think that dropping off their unwanted doggies out here is a good idea.
It isn't!
The dogs pack up (such is the nature of the beast).
You DO NOT want to run into a pack of hungry dogs in the woods, or even whilst mowing your lawn, when unarmed....

You may read this post twice today

 

[Poodle Soup]

Stopped to have pizza after the races last Saturday. Sitting there with a group or racers and one of drivers kids (20 or so hes close to my age) says "The other day there was a guy at the restaurant with a gun on his hip. Can you believe that? Just carrying a gun like that for no reason?"

I smile and nod, and situate my airweight to a more comfortable position in my pocket under the table. Some of my friends, my dad, girl friend and her sister ( after she almost broke her hand on my semi auto when trying to give me a jab in the side at a restaurant) are the only people who know I carry. Never have ran into a situation where someone noticed I was printing or the wind had my shirt tucked around behind my gun. People just don't look for that sort of thing unless they carry them selves it seems.

 

[venomballistics]

did you handle it right ..... well , mostly.
The rights prescribed within the second amendment are not "Your" rights, they are "Ours", to include shared ownership with the ignorant antigunner. Therein lies a fairly potent strategy for argument.
In my observations, many seemingly anti gun persons, are such because they are unaware that they too hold the option of going forth armed if they so choose. Make them aware of this.
By preaching that its "My right" we default to a position of superiority which they will attack. the "Our" right form extends an offer of equality that the rational mind is more apt to accept.

 

[pharmer]

You are projecting your paranoia as fact. Jim

Not really, I'm just saying if a miscreant who has carefully planned that "quick score", but didn't take my weapon into account beforehand, has changed the game on the spot. The fact that I have carried a weapon for almost 35 years has never qualified me as "quasi-cop" and I have no problem letting things play out without my "required input" should my weapon be an obvious fact. Everyone has a different idea of "situational behavior" as exemplified by a recent local "armed social encounter." I am not opposed to open carry at all however life has taught me to seek every "advantage" available. Again, everyone's idea of what that is exactly, is different. Joe

 

[venomballistics]

I am not going to be the hit of the day with this, but a lot of this is starting to get immature, juvenile and rediculous to me. Why not also get a bullet proof vest, wear handcuffs and pepper spray? This still isnt downtown bagdad. When it starts to get like the mideast or old tombstone maybe I will start packing while mowing my lawn, and keeping my gun in arms reach while I shower. Grow up!

If the potential threat is man in nature ... yeah .. but its not the case in rural areas where potential hazards best addressed with a caliber encompass both man and beast with a far stronger bias toward beast. I've yet to verbally apply reason with a beast with any measure of success ... there's a language barrier there, further complicated by cultural differences where beasts seem to have little regard for such notions as ownership and territory and even some confusion as to rank within the food chain.
the old country boys need steel on their sides far more than many of em know.

 

[StatesRightist]

I am not going to be the hit of the day with this, but a lot of this is starting to get immature, juvenile and rediculous to me. Why not also get a bullet proof vest, wear handcuffs and pepper spray? This still isnt downtown bagdad. When it starts to get like the mideast or old tombstone maybe I will start packing while mowing my lawn, and keeping my gun in arms reach while I shower. Grow up!

...and you are just as guilty of assuming everyone else lives in Utah and their biggest threat is a random cow. What works for you in Booneyville may not be the same as the guy working in East St. Louis. Nothing against Booneyville, I'm hoping to find my way to Nowhere MT soon.

Mall ninjas are a bad thing, but there is no one right answer on what works, there are too many factors for generalizations to be accurate. Personally, I go with over prepared does not hurt me, where as the other........