ATF visited me,Has this happened to you ?Happy Ending!!

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

they should just track the bad guys and provide a free/fast data base of do not sell to individuals, rather than make law abiders jump through hoops and prove themselves worthy of their constitutional rights.

I agree. Better yet, the state should institutionalize anyone they don't trust not to buy and use dangerous devices. I still remember one time when I was loitering at my LGS and a young fellow walked in and exclaimed somewhat strangely at all the guns. He had clearly graduated from the short bus to short unsupervised walks, and just as clearly had been educated not to fool around with guns. Not a danger to himself or anyone else. I myself can be trusted around dynamite, not a substance I know enough about to actually use it, because I won't play with it until I have satisfied both myself and competent users that I do know enough about it.

I see no reason why the state should release from confinement a violent felon who cannot be trusted to act properly with a firearm. Or a motor vehicle, either, for that matter.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the whole "I don't have anything to hide" rationale for letting a gov't agent into your home w/o a warrant. It has nothing to do w/that. It has to do with keeping a gov't "honest" and in compliance with the law. If everyone just let's them in, it will become expected protocol. Remember, rights are like muscles, when not exercised, they will atrophy and die. Govt agents are not your friends. We should treat them profesionally, but they have no right yo be in your home without probable cause and a warrant.

I understand your attitude, and you express some good ideas that I don't really have a problem with. However, I sometimes look at things a little differently. Gov't agents are not my friends? Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. They have no right to be in my home without PC and a warrant? Well, sort of, unless I invite them in. Granted, the OP cited a borderline case, but, in the end, the BATman turned out to be exactly the conscientious public servant he appeared to be in the first place. It seems that The Gorilla has had similar experiences.

If a BATman or a cop came to my house and wanted to know where a gun I used to own went, I'd be glad to tell him. I make sure that I can do that for every gun I've owned, although I'm missing serial numbers on some of the first few.

LEO's DO have some legitimate functions, and one should ordinarily want to help them, not create a dispute every time there is a lawful reason to do so.

 

[redlevel]

Why does ATF have the time and resources to visit/question/harass people who have broken no laws, but does not have time to prosecute convicted felons who illegally are in possession of firearms?

My County Sheriff told me earlier this year that he had tried to get BATF to file Federal charges against two wannabe gangbangers he had caught in possession of handguns. Both had previous felony convictions. One of them had posted pictures of himself and a friend shooting a handgun on Facebook. His Deputy had disarmed the other during a drug raid.

The Sheriff said they were not interested in prosecuting these two.

I do think that many times these decisions come from those higher on the totem pole than Special Agents. I have personal knowledge of one long-time (30 years) legitimate dealer who was harassed by ATF. In a hearing, the case was thrown out by the judge because the lawyer for the dealer turned the tables on the Agency. The ATF had tried to argue that the dealer was guilty of shoddy bookkeeping practices, mostly errors. There were no accusations of criminal activity on the dealer's part, but they were actually trying to pull the dealer's FFL. The attorney pointed out to the judge that the brief filed by ATF contained more errors than ATF was claiming the dealer made over a several year period of time. The dealer told me that one of the Special Agents on the case actually winked at him, and told him during a recess that the lawyer had blown ATF's case out of the water.

I respect Law Enforcement at all levels. I am not a hater, but I realize that when one is dealing with LE in an official investigation, they are not your friend. What they want more than anything else is a conviction.

 

[jaykellogg]

I had a LEO friend tell me that when his niece got her driver's license he advised her if stopped that she should "not fail the attitude test". I guess I am not likely to get a call because something I sold was used in a crime, I have only sold about three guns in the past 5-6 years. Two were traded at licensed shops and one was sold to a friend/ business associate in a FTF transaction. I wouldn't mind accounting for guns I have bought and since the BATFE knows about them I would show the guns. I have several that I bought in FTF transactions. Those I would prefer they remain in the background. I did speak with a gun dealer who told me he rented a store and opened a shop because he was hassled by law enforcement for selling at flea markets.

OTOH, my daughter in Philadelphia bought a row house and financed it through FHA. I sold half of my life insurance and gave her the money to pay down and closing costs. It took several months to close. Later, she got a visit from some investigators who treated her rudely and made vague accusations. She was pre approved to buy the property. I am not sure who they were trying to snag in their investigation, but I doubt they got much from the daughter. It would have been a lot better if they had acted like the agent the OP described. The daughter suffers from mild depression and is in counseling. When any government investigator treats you like a criminal you are sure they are trying to pin something on you.

 

[wbraswell]

Remember that these agents are not cops. Cops, FBI, Troopers and the like come under the Justice Dept. ATF, IRS, Secret Service, and game wardens are Treasury agents. This is a cat of a different color. It is best that you don't get surly with them. Most of you know better than to try to push it with IRS and game wardens. The others aren't any different. They usually don't care who your lawyer is, or what you think your rights are. They will just make your life hell until they get what they want. Remember that it was Treasury agents that started the whole Davidian seige in Waco, then turned it over to Justice to "clean" it up.
I would like to clarify that those attitudes are rooted deep in the Treasury Dept. and not individuals who work for it, although you can bet they are indoctrinated.

 

[growr]

A friend of mine is now an ATF agent...got him good a while back telling him about a brand new gun I just bought that uses caseless ammo and has a built in reloading press on it as well.....drove him nuts until I showed him my 1860 Army cap and ball revolvers that I use in SASS.

He laughed and said that I got him good on that one !!!

Randy

 

[sw282]

l fell upon this not to recent thread and just have to say that nobody mentioned the Second Amendment when talking about the law. My position is like the Founding Fathers. "Shall NOT be infringed" means it should be my business what l own.. l have only broken the law AFTER l commit a crime using a firearm.......