Atomic J frame

[DFrame]

Is it possible to become proficient with full house .357 loads, in short barrel J frames?

And If this is a possibility, would the ballistics achieved be significantly superior enough to justify the major increase in recoil/muzzle jump/blast/etc?

Could this setup be tamed enough through practice to become a viable, compact setup with extreme power?

It probably is, if you have a high enough pain threshold and a good orthopaedic surgeon.

 

[Doug M.]

Hello again, it's Meltmelt.

I'm still confused regarding the final consensus of velocity loss out of short barrels, in comparing .357 to .38+p.
When dealing with a 2.125 inch bbl stainless 640 j frame.
Will a full house load merely offer up to a 250fps increase compared to a hot .38+p in the same weapon? it seems there are differing answers on this subject.


However I am fairly proficient in the handling/tolerance of regrettable recoil/muzzle blast in small revolvers..........
How about Buffalo bore 158 Grn Heavy .357 loads?
(I looked into this round as a potential load which could rival the power supplied by .357 from full sized barrels.. But i assume it would prove outright rude in a j frame.)

*
Not sure about the actual velocity loss figures, although as I recall Doc Roberts has noted that the increase in noise, flash, and nasty recoil when using .357 in a J frame is not worth it. Gary's pretty sharp and objective; I'll take his word for it. When I was younger I might have tried it, but not now.

The Buffalo Bore load you mention would probably be far beyond outright rude. If you really feel compelled, get someone to video the testing and post it on youtube as a warning to all who ignore that prediction.

A solid wadcutter target load is actually reasonably effective as handgun rounds go, and actually shootable in a J frame. A moderate SWC as a reload would not be bad (WC are hard to reload with quickly). You are unlikely to get real expansion with adequate penetration using most HP loads in a snubby, but the square faced WC/SWC loads will cut well and give full caliber holes.

Remember that handgun rounds basically suck for stopping determined adversaries - and misses even more so! 4-5 hits with WC in the vitals will be a lot better than many other options. On those rare times I carry a .38 snubby, I use Black Hills target WC loads for all these reasons.

 

[meltmelt]

*
Not sure about the actual velocity loss figures, although as I recall Doc Roberts has noted that the increase in noise, flash, and nasty recoil when using .357 in a J frame is not worth it. Gary's pretty sharp and objective; I'll take his word for it. When I was younger I might have tried it, but not now.

The Buffalo Bore load you mention would probably be far beyond outright rude. If you really feel compelled, get someone to video the testing and post it on youtube as a warning to all who ignore that prediction.

A solid wadcutter target load is actually reasonably effective as handgun rounds go, and actually shootable in a J frame. A moderate SWC as a reload would not be bad (WC are hard to reload with quickly). You are unlikely to get real expansion with adequate penetration using most HP loads in a snubby, but the square faced WC/SWC loads will cut well and give full caliber holes.

Remember that handgun rounds basically suck for stopping determined adversaries - and misses even more so! 4-5 hits with WC in the vitals will be a lot better than many other options. On those rare times I carry a .38 snubby, I use Black Hills target WC loads for all these reasons.

that's advice i'll be living.... i've come to my senses finally lol. thanks

my first shot of todays outing.... Buffalo bore load with stock wood grips. i was ready to cringe, endure the moderate pain, and laugh it off while joking "hey that does suck THAT bad." before i kept going ...... but when the hammer fell it was like getting struck by the lightning of bruce lees essence.

i find it dangerous that if all they offer is a couple hundred fps over .38+p at best in these short barrels, that so many people are putting themselves at risk when they depend on it as somehow more effective. when really, it may cause them to miss shots, or neutralize less efficiently


i appreciate that i was taken down a notch, you guys really brought about valid, real world points that i was refusing to see, for sake of novelty. it seems that short barrel .357 are possibly more dangerous to many victims than helpful.

that is until proper barrel length and linear compensators are mandatory jframe standards

 

[mauiblue]

I love to shoot magnum rounds through my 686 Plus 4" as it is just a pleasure. Soaks up a lot of the recoil. Maybe you should consider a large frame revolver if you want to shoot 357 magnum rounds and 38 spl caliber. Have fun.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

 

[OLDSTER]

snubby .357

Don't underestimate the long-term effects of shooting heavy recoiling guns on your wrist. I am 63 now, shot handguns all my life, and now find I can only shoot 15 to 20 shots out of my 1911s without feeling significant wrist pain. You mileage may vary, but you won't know until you get there. It is wise to be reasonable with your gun/ammo choices when it comes to recoil. Right now, .22s are my best friends.

I've got ya beat by 2 years ( I'm 65) and concur with what you posted. Even though I shot production class handgun silouette for years with either a Model 29 or Super Black Hawk, and enjoyed the noise and recoil of big handguns ( for which I'm now paying the price), I was never into self mutilization enough to shoot .357 out of a snubbie.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

Out of my old Model 38 I shoot 110 gr Winchester Silvertips NON-+P.
I suspect I would use the same load out of the SP-101 I didn't buy the other day. I practice with 130 gr. Ball, because it's cheap.
Geoff
Who prefers 9mm autos now days, carloads of gang thugs cruising FL convinced me.

 

[MikeyB]

After shooting 10 rounds of 158gr .357 Mag in my M&P 360 I realize the little Hogue Bantam grips is not the right choice for me. Switching to the Pachmayr's Compac grips made it a little more tolerable. Only practice with .38's now and carry .357 Gold Dot's 135gr JHP.

 

[oberon]

Yes.
No.
No.
I have to ask: Why?
I mean, what for?
I knew a guy who stuffed an Oldsmobile 410 Wildcat into the back
seat of a Volkswagen. It only ran in the brackets on Friday nites, and even then, nobody could sit in it longer than it took to make a single run.
Sorta begs the question: Why?

 

[brokendowncop]

At the risk of driving the ballistics experts nuts I would submit that real life factual events are equally important to the graphs and science. Read about the "Newhall Incident" CHP guys with Model 28's chambered with .357 jacketed hollow points. Multiple rounds to the chest of the bad guy at very close range. Penetration with no vital organs hit. Bad guy kept coming and killed the Officer. Close quarters combat distance. Exactly what a personal defense weapon is for and why we CCW. I don't know for sure but perhaps the shock power of a slower .38 round may have given the good guys a better edge. No, it won't penetrate an engine block but I have never been taken on by an engine block.

Respectfully submitted with no offense intended.

 

[kaaskop49]

If the J-357 is a steel-frame, CCI Blazer 357M 158 gr JHP might be a good choice. It's not a barn-burner, but not a creampuff either. The holes it makes in paper actually look bigger than .357, no, the bullet is not tipping. More importantly, the bullets will not 'pull' as they often do in the scandium jobs. This 'pulling' is the major issue; the factory seems to want to ignore it, it's the gorilla in the room. Scandium recoil is the other issue.
As to .357M 2" velocity: .38 and .357 loads in the same bullet weights have been chronographed side by side for years. There IS a difference. No, .357 snubs do not have 6" velocity, but they can fit in your pocket. Carry whatever you prefer, make sure it functions ('pulling' again), accept the shortcomings of any snub, and learn to use it. VL

 

[Doug M.]

The CHP personnel did not hit either of the murderers at Newhall. This may have been in part to the common practice of training with wadcutters and never using duty ammo. The only shot fired at Newhall that hit one of the offenders was fired by a civilian who picked up a dead trooper's gun and hit with a piece of ricocheting bullet jacket after hitting a car, if I recall correctly.

 

[photoman]

Newhall massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia