Attempted Robbery next door

[redlevel]

I've told this one before, but its true and fits here. It illustrates the fact that it just depends on the jurisdiction.

A year or two back a guy drove off from a rural grocery/gas station without paying. Took off in a cloud of dust and a hail of gravel. The proprietor ran out hollering. A deer hunter sitting in his pickup eating his beanie weenies and soda crackers jumped out with some kind of scoped .357 revolver. He fired several shots, attempting to blow a tire. A deputy ran the guy down a few miles down the road. The car had a couple of holes in the left rear quarter panel. As the Sheriff was cuffing the guy, who had outstanding paper in a couple of jurisdictions, the guy asked the Sheriff, 'What are you going to do about that man who shot holes in my car?" The Sheriff replied, "I'm going to buy him a box of ammo and tell him to practice some."

Rural Georgia is a good place to live if you are a law-abiding citizen, because generally, the law is on your side.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm glad she was armed and unharmed. But warning shots are just a waste of ammo.

I believe it was the ever so eloquent Mr Ayoob that said "every bullet has an attorney attached to it".

 

[Fishslayer]

I've been told that in Massachusetts, pleading the fifth is discouraged by the police. Does anyone want to shed some insight on this?

Because saying nothing without an attorney makes their job harder.

 

[Rule 303]

Where I live most of these folks would get a "Good Citizen" Commendation. But then again, Texas is different than most states.

Most folks don't know what training is and that's too bad.

Once had a Case where a little ol' Lady went out at O' Dark Thirty to confront the Yoots who were stealing her fire wood.
She got in the middle of the Alley and told them to halt. The three yoots thought they would proceed down the alley over her until she started blowing big chunks of their windshield all over them with her trusty Security Six Revolver. At the hospital the yoots were subdued but their Mommas and Daddies wanted the lady arrested for assulting their precious little boys. As soon as the ER Doc got finished sewing them up, we hooked them up for Burglary of a Habitation, 5 to 99 years or life and a $10,000.00 fine. Seems where they were stealing the firewood was a shed attached to the Deweling.

Mommas and Daddies about stroked and the DA laughed at them. All of de Yoots got Felony Probation. My DA was refered to by the Defense Attorneys and Criminals as "the Prince of &*^%^$^ Darkness." Graduate of the Military Academy at West Point and Army Airborne Ranger. Tough ol' boot and he had Texas Criminal Penal Code and Code of Criminal Procedure to work with. He used it to the State's Advantage.
He loved citizens who protected themselves, their families and their property.

Rule 303

 

[Zeteo]

OK, so I spoke to my police buddy, and have some more light to shed on the incident. Turns out - not a robbery attempt. The suspect was involved in a police chase. No plates on his car. After his arrest, PD discovered he had several felony warrants and most likely the reason he decided to run.

He ditched the car and ran behind several businesses with an officer in pursuit on foot.

Several other cars were already on their way to the area due to the pursuit. The suspect slipped between my building and the tanning salon. (Our buildings are not attached, both are freestanding businesses). Fortunately for me, my entrance is on the other side of the building, but the salons entrance faces my store, right where the suspect was running. He ran into the salon in order to hide from officer on foot chase, who did not see him enter the salon.

According to what she told police, he ran in, no shoes, muddy feet, and started running around looking for a place to hide. She pulled out her weapon (I forgot to ask him what make/caliber) chased him out of the store, and fired the shot in the air after him.

We'll see what happens from here. In my mind, this illustrates exactly why we need to be well trained if we decide to arm ourselves. Someone could have been killed. Her life was never in danger, yet the intensity of the situation got the better of her and she acted without thinking.

 

[The Big D]

And there you have it!

Be safe.

... In my mind, this illustrates exactly why we need to be well trained if we decide to arm ourselves. Someone could have been killed. Her life was never in danger, yet the intensity of the situation got the better of her and she acted without thinking.

 

[redlevel]

Her life was never in danger

That's a mighty easy judgement for you to make, a day after the fact, from in front of a computer screen, isn't it?

Did you say he was a fleeing felon? Running from police? Hunting a place to hide? Do you suppose she just might have been considered a good subject for a hostage by the fleeing felon, except for the fact that she was armed?

 

[Zeteo]

That's a mighty easy judgement for you to make, a day after the fact, from in front of a computer screen, isn't it?

Did you say he was a fleeing felon? Running from police? Hunting a place to hide? Do you suppose she just might have been considered a good subject for a hostage by the fleeing felon, except for the fact that she was armed?

Good point redlevil, good point. I hadn't thought about it that way.

At the same time, though, I don't believe she was aware of a foot chase by LEO when he came running in. She saw a man run into her shop, no shoes, muddy feet, and running around looking to get into a tanning room. She then pulled the weapon, chased him out and fired.

My point is that training is essential for those of us who wish to use firearms to protect ourselves. She not only endangered my daughter, who was waiting on customers approx 50 feet away from where she discharged her weapon, but also many people in a busy area at a busy time of day. That bullet has to go somewhere when it leaves the gun. A responsible gun owner needs to be trained well enough to take those things into consideration even when things get out of the ordinary. In fact, that's why we carry our weapons, isn't it? In order to deal with situations that are out of the ordinary?

 

[hatt]

Her life was never in danger...

That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure most police are shot trying to apprehend suspects. Clearly if they're willing to shoot police trying to catch them they'll harm someone else caught up in the situation.

 

[Zeteo]

That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure most police are shot trying to apprehend suspects. Clearly if they're willing to shoot police trying to catch them they'll harm someone else caught up in the situation.

Hatt, what I meant to say, was that her perception of being in danger was very low. In fact, she told police that she fired in the air to alert them to suspects presence. How smart is that?

 

[Cocked & Locked]

silliest

...silliest...

I haven't heard anyone use the word "silly" in a looong time.

Only the bad guy knows if her life was in danger or if it was "silly." No need to even speculate.

 

[hatt]

Hatt, what I meant to say, was that her perception of being in danger was very low. In fact, she told police that she fired in the air to alert them to suspects presence. How smart is that?

If someone barges into my business, freaking out, running from the police my perception of danger is going to be very high. I doubt her's was any different than mine. You are just a lot harder than me I guess.

 

[Zeteo]

If someone barges into my business, freaking out, running from the police my perception of danger is going to be very high. I doubt her's was any different than mine. You are just a lot harder than me I guess.

Hatt, you aren't reading what I'm writing I guess. She had no idea until she ran outside that this person was involved in a police chase. She had a guy run in the building and she chased him out with her gun. She then discharged it as he was fleeing and was at least 25 feet away from her with his BACK to her!!!

You can argue all you like that I am hard, or my perception is silly, but she had no business firing a loaded gun into the air pursuing a suspect outside her building in a busy business area, with no idea what was going on.

And she fired the weapon AFTER she saw law enforcement in the area. Now there is a good way to get shot yourself!!!

 

[redlevel]

Good point redlevil, good point. I hadn't thought about it that way.

At the same time, though, I don't believe she was aware of a foot chase by LEO when he came running in. She saw a man run into her shop, no shoes, muddy feet, and running around looking to get into a tanning room. She then pulled the weapon, chased him out and fired.

My point is that training is essential for those of us who wish to use firearms to protect ourselves. She not only endangered my daughter, who was waiting on customers approx 50 feet away from where she discharged her weapon, but also many people in a busy area at a busy time of day. That bullet has to go somewhere when it leaves the gun. A responsible gun owner needs to be trained well enough to take those things into consideration even when things get out of the ordinary. In fact, that's why we carry our weapons, isn't it? In order to deal with situations that are out of the ordinary?

I wouldn't have to be aware that a foot chase was going on if someone in bare feet, muddy, etc. came running into my place of business hunting a place to hide. I would draw my weapon and try to make him leave.

I agree that she used poor judgement by firing her weapon. I am not arguing that.

I could, within 10 minutes, cite a dozen recent examples of police officers who have had months of training and years of experience who have endangered the public through poor judgement/misuse of their weapons. Yet you and others want to hold the general public to what seems to me to be a higher standard than officers are held. My Mama is 93 years old and takes a lot of comfort in having her Chiefs Special in a drawer in her bedroom. I doubt she could pass any training regime that could be implemented to achieve what you and others seem to be suggesting. I am 63, fat and out of shape, had multiple orthopedic surgeries. I have a lifetime of experience with firearms and did indeed go through a month long police academy 40 years ago that included all of two days of firearms training. I imagine I would have a hard time completing a training program if it involved more than minimal physical exertion. Would you deny me and my Mama the right to protect ourselves because of a lack of some state mandated training?

I submit that if firing her weapon unadvisedly is a training issue, then most police agencies need to double or triple their firearms training regiments, because they are more often guilty of poor judgement with firearms, from my observations, than is the armed public. Especially with the advent of striker fired semi-autos and 15+ round capacity magazines that encourage spray and pray.

I think improper use of firearms in tense situations involving both police and the legally armed public is more an adrenaline issue than it is a training issue.

 

[Zeteo]

I'm not disagreeing. I would have drawn my weapon and made him leave as well. However, I wouldn't go outside, after him, shooting even when I see LEO on the scene. That's the point I'm trying to make. He's gone, the danger has passed, no need to chase him down.

She told police afterward that she fired into the air to 'alert LEO to his presence' because she saw the LEO's outside. Now, that doesn't sound like an adrenaline issue, really, does it?

And don't get me wrong, I am NOT trying to judge her here. I am pointing out that all of us who carry firearms need to be trained, and to use this particular situation for all of us to learn from. I am not holding her to a higher standard than anyone EXCEPT those who choose not to carry.

If we choose to exercise our 2nd amendment rights and carry, we should be held to a higher standard. You wouldn't want your neighbor willy-nilly firing his weapon in the air outside on your street because his adrenaline level was high that day.

 

[Okla]

Police training in action..

stupid fat cop with a gun - YouTube

 

[27145]

Zeteo, you are really wasting your time here. There are a few members of this forum who think it is their God given right to carry a gun and do what ever they want to do. They are very anti police. When you express an articulate view, they get cranky because they have to interrupt watching the "Duke's of Hazzard" in order to berate you over and over and over again.

 

[old bear]

As others have noted the store owner made some mistakes when under great stress. I'll be the first to admit I've had a bonehead moment or two myself. So I would like to suggest that only folks, who have been in a like situation and reacted perfectly, comment on how the victim reacted to a potential life threating situation.

 

[jamesk1989]

Hatt, you aren't reading what I'm writing I guess. She had no idea until she ran outside that this person was involved in a police chase. She had a guy run in the building and she chased him out with her gun. She then discharged it as he was fleeing and was at least 25 feet away from her with his BACK to her!!!

You can argue all you like that I am hard, or my perception is silly, but she had no business firing a loaded gun into the air pursuing a suspect outside her building in a busy business area, with no idea what was going on.

And she fired the weapon AFTER she saw law enforcement in the area. Now there is a good way to get shot yourself!!!

I agree with you. Unless the perp was threatening me with a weapon, I would have just called the police and updated them on the perp's location. Lethal force should be used only if less forceful measures have been exhausted.

As others have noted the store owner made some mistakes when under great stress. I'll be the first to admit I've had a bonehead moment or two myself. So I would like to suggest that only folks, who have been in a like situation and reacted perfectly, comment on how the victim reacted to a potential life threating situation.

This thread might as well have no comments then. Because no average citizen is perfect.
Either way, my first reaction would have been to hide/find cover. I would probably be too nervous to reach for my gun, let alone fire a shot.

 

[redlevel]

Zeteo, you are really wasting your time here. There are a few members of this forum who think it is their God given right to carry a gun and do what ever they want to do. They are very anti police. When you express an articulate view, they get cranky because they have to interrupt watching the "Duke's of Hazzard" in order to berate you over and over and over again.

I am articulate enough to know that the "Dukes of Hazzard" doesn't need an apostrophe, because no possession is denoted.

I only made that observation to make the point that just because someone expresses an opinion that doesn't exactly reflect yours, that person isn't necessarily ignorant nor inarticulate.

Nor am I anti police. In fact, I support the police. They have to make life or death decisions instantly, and sometimes their judgment, like that of all of us, is faulty. I don't think my statements about what are obvious and well publicized shortcomings of police officers and their use of firearms is cop bashing.

I am not "berating" Zeteo. I am expressing a different viewpoint. I am not a 2nd Amendment absolutist. I believe the state has a right to minimal regulation. I had to pass a background check to get my Georgia Weapons License. I have no problem with that, but I believe that is enough regulation.

I have great concerns when someone suggests some state mandated training needed before one is "qualified" to carry a weapon. There is too much room for chicanery.