Automatic vs manual reloading thoughts

[s1mp13m4n]

Hello everyone. I have been reading and enjoying Modern Reloading 2nd edition. I realize folks prefer some reloading presses to others. Being a newbie who owns no reloading gear....I am curious. For the sake of safety and total control, would you be less likely to make a mistake on a single stage press and load a measured charge by hand with a dipper compared to a more automated loading press where you pull a handle and trust the powder feeder to not mess up or drop more powder than it should? I am by no means saying a progressive press is bad, but I wonder if over time would one become lazy and just trust the machine thus not noticing a mistake? Would you not be more involved and have to pay more attention to your work by using a single stage press and dippers...or even the "whack a mole" method? Some how I like the idea of doing the same step or stage to say 50 brass cases, then step two, three, and so on. Sure it would be slower, but somehow I think you are more likely to focus and catch a mistake. My newbie brain wonders.

 

[Titegroups]

I use lees turret presses which automatically advances the process with each pull making a double charge rather unlikely. I think this adds considerably to safety. If safety is a concern I would reccomend going using a bulky powder that will overflow the case with a double charge. IMO it would be easier to double charge by trying to charge all cases at one time. I would prefer to complete each round in a seial process rather than in parallel. If I were younger and sharper I would be less concerned of making a mistake, I like the fact the machine will advance the process.

 

[Rule3]

Would you not be more involved and have to pay more attention to your work by using a single stage press and dippers...or even the "whack a mole" method? Some how I like the idea of doing the same step or stage to say 50 brass cases, then step two, three, and so on. Sure it would be slower, but somehow I think you are more likely to focus and catch a mistake. My newbie brain wonders.

That is how I started and still recommend. I still load rifle like that. The dippers are very accurate only if used correctly. Scoop and slide a straight edge over the top, do not tap or shake. A good manual powder measure is a little easier and a bit more accurate I think.

Put all your primed, sized cases (50) in a plastic bowl, fill them under the power measure and put in a loading tray, check them all with flashlight if needed. Put a bullet on top and then seat and crimp.

You can load plenty of ammo with a single stage or a turret and convert it to single stage.

JMHO be prepared for lots more.

 

[SMSgt]

Would you jump on a Harley to learn to ride a bicycle?

Learn the basics on a S/S press. They're not as slow as some think, and a newbie doesn't need to try to crank out hundreds of rounds per hour. Can you learn to reload on a progressive? Yes. But that's like trying to overhaul an engine without knowing how it works.

You may even find you don't like/don't have time for reloading. Now you've sunk a major chunk of change in something you don't like/need. You can always sell the SG press and upgrade to a progressive later.

 

[harrison_creek]

Great advice so far. You have to pay attention to the details when reloading no matter what type of press you use. Once you have reloaded for a while you understand the process and you get a feel for your equipment. My Uncle taught me how to reload on a RCBS single stage press in the late 70's. I was shooting enough and was able to afford a RCII of my own in 1985. I added a Lee Classic Turret 15 years later and just last year added a Dillon 650XL. I feel comfortable loading on any of them but I have learned how to use them correctly. You have to be attentive to all of them and you certainly have to be very keen on what is happening on the Dillon because several operations (tasks) are happening at once. You can learn to reload with any type of press but the single stage of LCT helps you stay focused on one task at a time.

 

[aguablanco]

It doesn't matter if you learn to drive using a Yugo or a Ferrari, the principles are exactly the same. This is also true for reloading. While it is possible to use a progressive as a single stage, it is not possible to use a single stage as a progressive. With either press you still set up one function at a time and work on that function until it meets your standards. The real question is are you going to be reloading mass quantities or just the occasional rounds? That is what, in my opinion, should guide your decision. I started reloading in the 80's, took a 20 year break, and am now back to loading and I have never owned a single stage. Precision in reloading is not a matter of press type, it comes from your ability to read, understand and follow simple directions. If you can't do that it won't matter what type of press you buy, you will eventually have issues.
RichH

 

[Twoboxer]

Great question! The bottom line answer is that you can double-charge at any time using any press or any method. The only thing that changes is the specific mistake or malfunction that caused the double-charge. On a Lee Turret, eg, if you do not complete the ram's downward stroke for any reason (eg, interruption) it will not index and the next stroke will repeat the last . . . which could have been a powder drop.

Single stage or turret is often recommended for beginners because only one die is used at a time, for one round. You can see what's happening because there's nothing else to watch at that stroke/moment. You can do the same process on a single stage (eg crimping) many times in a row and get a feel for what change in stroke or adjustment does.

Starting single stage is also reasonable if you're doing rifle. You'll use that single stage press even if you eventually finish the cartridge on a progressive.

Starting progressive is very possible if you are attentive and retentive, and mechanically inclined to handle the adjustments that are often required to linkages, changeovers etc. Single stage avoids most of these issues so you can concentrate on making the cartridge.

I realized I wanted a progressive press for pistol when for the first time I did a batch of 300 rounds of 9mm, and it took 1500 strokes of a Lee Classic Turret and 300 hand-priming squeezes to complete. Would have been . . . er, will be nice to do that in 304 strokes lol.

In pistol, I'm also not at all concerned about slop in the turret or tool head making minor differences in the round, so progressive is fine. (I went with a Hornady LNL AP to minimize/eliminate those "issues" even for pistol). For rifle, for me, for now, it's a different story. Again, YMMV.

There are many ways to minimize the likelihood of double-charging, and what works for me may not work for you. Fortuitously, I use powders in both pistol (W231/HP38 in 380, 9mm, and 45ACP) and rifle that will overflow if doubled-up, or at least be visible near the top of the case.

But the BEST way (for me, YMMV) is to have room on my turret or progressive for a powder checker die that shows me the level of powder in each case. Double- and zero-charges are obvious, but it also shows minor variations in powder volume thrown.

If I were charging a batch of cartridges by hand, a flashlight examination of each or a wooden dowel (with a "fill line" drawn on it) dropped into each case is probably the best way to accomplish the same effect.

 

[kwselke]

Hello everyone. I have been reading and enjoying Modern Reloading 2nd edition. I realize folks prefer some reloading presses to others. Being a newbie who owns no reloading gear....I am curious. For the sake of safety and total control, would you be less likely to make a mistake on a single stage press and load a measured charge by hand with a dipper compared to a more automated loading press where you pull a handle and trust the powder feeder to not mess up or drop more powder than it should? I am by no means saying a progressive press is bad, but I wonder if over time would one become lazy and just trust the machine thus not noticing a mistake? Would you not be more involved and have to pay more attention to your work by using a single stage press and dippers...or even the "whack a mole" method? Some how I like the idea of doing the same step or stage to say 50 brass cases, then step two, three, and so on. Sure it would be slower, but somehow I think you are more likely to focus and catch a mistake. My newbie brain wonders.

I started with and still use a single stage press exclusively. Primarily because of the higher start up costs with a progressive. Once learning how reloading was done I found that I could easily load the 1,000 to 1,500 rounds per month that I was shooting, so I never felt the need for a higher volume machine. Errors can occur with any type of reloading equipment, if the operator is not vigilant. My personal opinion is that the volume of ammo you need, the time you intend to devote to loading, and your available funds should be the deciding factors in what equipment you buy.

 

[Titegroups]

Lee turrets rotate as the handle is pushed to the top, not the other way around. One may fail to pull it down but it would be unlikely that someone wouldnt push it back up to the top.

 

[mikld]

Well, I'm convinced the best way to learn to reload is on a single stage press. Each step/operation is learned in turn, and die adjustments are re-done with each step (learning to adjust dies is essential for troubleshooting ammo that isn't quite right; won't chamber) Learning what/how each step is done and why are much easier on a single stage when only one thing happens with each pull of the handle. I'd rather teach someone to drive in a Yugo with a three speed auto trans than a Ferrari with a 6 speed manual trans and a 3,000 lb. clutch. Yep, someone can learn to drive either one, but the time involved and the quality of the learning experience are the difference.

Safety should be learned no matter which press/system is used. Some methods lend themselves to easier safety checks, but for any method there are checks that should be done.

FWIW, many, many of the chambering, priming, and squib problems that come up on forums are from reloaders that attempted to learn reloading on a progressive. As for "lazy" reloaders; 45 ACP has been appearing with small primers rather than large, but the only group that this is a problem for is progressive reloaders, they can't just dump the brass in their hopper, they have to look at them first! Or running a dozen rounds through the press before they realize the ammo dropping in the pan don't have primers.

Progressive presses aren't bad. They are just not suited for a new/inexperienced person to learn reloading.

Jes my .02...

 

[s1mp13m4n]

I am reading Modern Reloading 2nd edition....and while it is an ad for Lee reloading gear, it is an interesting read. From what I am reading the Lee 50th anniversary kit might be my best choice with the LEE hand loader might be my second choice.....as per the book info. While the gear may be important, what seems to matter the most is proper use of whatever you may own and also learning to do it right.

 

[Twoboxer]

Lee turrets rotate as the handle is pushed to the top, not the other way around. One may fail to pull it down but it would be unlikely that someone wouldnt push it back up to the top.

If you don't finish the stroke which causes the index . . . whatever you want to call it . . . handle up or ram down . . . the next time you pull the handle down and the ram goes up it will dispense another powder charge. All you need to happen is an untimely interruption.

It's no more likely or unlikely than any other press misuse/malfunction/mistake.

 

[blujax01]

I learned on a progressive and later bought a single stage for "off-line" tasks, such as reseating high primers.

I will soon be loading 45-70 rifle rounds and will probably use the single stage for that.

I agree with the others who are saying that "it ain't the arrow - it's the Indian!"

 

[photobiker]

I have a single stage and have mixed feelings. With out a doubt you NEED to learn on a single stage press. I think there are too many distractions with a progressive press for the beginner. There are times I'm in the garage pulling that handle 3 time for each completed round I wish I had a progressive.
If you are on a budget single stage is the way to go, you will always have a need for a single stage press.
There are those powders I use that I just wouldn't trust in a progressive press, they don't meter consistently.
As someone mentioned with a single stage you do things in batches. I have boxes of cleaned brass, deprimed, flared and primed. When one of those boxes gets low I'll spend 30 minutes doing what process is need to refill it. This takes the boredom out of the process. I always have cases primed and ready for powder and bullets.

 

[Rule3]

If you do not need mas quantities or different calibers of ammo. The single stage is a great economical way to go.

One great thing about them (although it is slow and redundant) Is as you say, you can do one thing and one thing only and not really concentrate that hard.

Deprime and resize 100 or 200 cases until you are tired or had enough. You can just walk away.

Now you can take your batch of brass and hand prime while sitting on the couch or a easy chair. Put them away when done.

Now you have a bunch of primed ready to load brass,which you can do at any time when you are fresh and ready to concentrate, the previous steps was more prep or "grunt" work, do your powder drop, check each one in the loading tray and seat and crimp the bullet. Done! You can stretch this out over time or when you feel like it. You are also looking at each piece of brass several times to be sure there is not cracks or odd looking case mouths etc.

Trying to muli task and learn a new progressive press, plus be sure every round is perfect can get intimidating at first.

No matter what press you buy, get a GOOD scale. It is the most important piece of equipment you will buy.

 

[Zermat]

Buy a Dillon.....

 

[Rule3]

Buy a Dillon.....

So very profound

 

[rwsmith]

Mistakes can be made

The mistakes are there waiting to happen either with s/s or progressive. Double charging or not charging at all seem to be common to both systems, especially if something doesn't work and fixing it interrupts your train of thought. The last obvious mistake I made with a single stage was charging a case I had missed putting a primer in. And I made some rifle rounds that wouldn't chamber. And.......

 

[blujax01]

So very profound

Our Brother has seen the light!

 

[fredj338]

Either way can cause a problem if the reloader is distracted. DOn't let anyone tell you an atuo indexing press is fool proof to double chares or squibs, pure BS. Anything that can happen will happen if the user is not paying attenion. There are near fool proof methods for loading on any press though. It's always about proper technique.