Bar Beating Cop Finally Goes to Trial

[cmort666]

Abbate Goes to Trial

I see a quite a bit of criticism of the other patrons in the bar for not going to the barmaid's aid. However, you have to wonder whether the cop was armed at the time. Since the 911 calls were not responded to in a timely fashion, and Abbate was allowed to hide out in "rehab" for at least a week before being arrested, he was never searched immediately after the incident and had ample time to dispose of any firearm(s) he may have been carrying at the time of the beating.

In another high profile beating involving an off-duty Chicago cop, when suburban police responded to the 911 call and finally tracked him down, he was found passed out drunk, on top of his firearm in some bushes near the bar where the beating occurred.

Had someone come to the barmaid's defense, they might have been shot and killed by the suspect. Given that at least some of the witnesses knew that Abbate was a cop, that very likely played a role in their decision not to intervene.

 

[2Loud4You]

Wow, he just pummeled her. I'm surprised she got up as easily as she did but I'm sure adrenaline had something to do with that.

I take being a cop out of the equation and just look at a man beating the living daylights out a woman 1/2 his size. Yeah, he should definitely pay for that and if it's proven he attempted to use his power as an officer to intimidate, then hit him with even more.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by 2Loud4You:
Wow, he just pummeled her. I'm surprised she got up as easily as she did but I'm sure adrenaline had something to do with that.

I take being a cop out of the equation and just look at a man beating the living daylights out a woman 1/2 his size. Yeah, he should definitely pay for that and if it's proven he attempted to use his power as an officer to intimidate, then hit him with even more.

The problem is that you CAN'T take his being a cop out of it.

1. Only cops and city council members are allowed to HAVE handguns in Chicago, nevermind carry them. He could very well have been carrying a gun, and I'd bet money on it based on the subsequent Callahan case which I mentioned.

2. As a cop (and especially a Chicago cop) he is going to be given the benefit of the doubt and his word given greater weight than yours. You could save that barmaid's life and still at the very least end up arrested. If you do some more detailed reading on the subsequent events, you'll see that a GREAT deal of deference was shown to the defendant throughout the entire process. Are you willing to risk your freedom and crippling legal fees to protect the barmaid? I probably would. A lot of people definitely wouldn't. I'm not sure I have the right to criticize them too harshly for it.

 

[Jeb Stonewall]

What a jerk!
Don't he know that small girl he was beating on might have a husband, or a brother , or a ---

FATHER

--?
Alot of places that fat puke would be loseing weight fast.
BTW- how much does blood weigh?

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by Jeb Stonewall:
What a jerk!
Don't he know that small girl he was beating on might have a husband, or a brother , or a ---

FATHER

--?
Alot of places that fat puke would be loseing weight fast.
BTW- how much does blood weigh?

If they tried something against him, they'd end up in prison or dead, GUARANTEED.

 

[animalmother]

I betting he will be convicted. He's a big galoot who was more than twice the weight of the little bar tender. He should be convicted and lose his job.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by animalmother:
I betting he will be convicted. He's a big galoot who was more than twice the weight of the little bar tender. He should be convicted and lose his job.

I'm not holding my breath. He had an opportunity to plead out and passed. Look at how LONG this thing has been delayed. Either he's insane or his lawyer KNOWS something. Given that the police board has NOT fired him, I'm betting on the latter.

All of this of course points up the likelihood that the other bar patrons weighed the odds and rationally decided that it was better to let her get her brains beaten out than to get involved. They may yet be proved right.

 

[red14]

If you take out the fact he is a cop, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

If you factor in that he WAS a cop, he should be in jail for the rest of his life. He is supposed to PROTECT and DEFEND, not beat up the public.

I have never hit a woman. He is a coward and scum. A waste of carbon and air.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by red14:
If you take out the fact he is a cop, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

If you factor in that he WAS a cop, he should be in jail for the rest of his life. He is supposed to PROTECT and DEFEND, not beat up the public.

I have never hit a woman. He is a coward and scum. A waste of carbon and air.

A lot of people, especially Chicago cops, disagree.

I've seen statements (today, by a cop, in fact) that he should never have been charged with any felony.

I've seen statements by cops that he shouldn't even be fired.

I've even seen statements by cops that he should SUE THE CITY for prosecuting him.

Given the actual facts surrounding the attack and its aftermath and these sorts of attitudes in play, it's hardly surprising that nobody tried to help the barmaid. If nobody cared about her life, limb and rights, why should bystanders and wouldbe good samaritans think they'll come out any better?

 

[safearm]

cmort,
In past discussions, as well as this one, you have been very vocal in your disdain of Chicago police officers.

"Given that the police board has NOT fired him, I'm betting on the latter."

Abbate is suspended without pay. He does not have police powers. He cannot legally carry a firearm. He is not being paid by taxpayers. However, whether you agree or not, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not in the media. When he is found guilty of at least one felony, the Police Board (or whatever the governing body is called in Chicago) will terminate him. Until then, we all can agree that his actions are reprehensible, but why go on a tirade about the entire Chicago PD?

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by safearm:
Abbate is suspended without pay. He does not have police powers. He cannot legally carry a firearm. He is not being paid by taxpayers. However, whether you agree or not, he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not in the media.

So you do not believe that his activities shown in the video merit termination, even WITHOUT criminal prosecution?

A lot of Chicago cops seem to think he shouldn't BE prosecuted, certainly not on the basis of any felony.

Where would THAT leave us?

No prosecution AND him still on the job.

Of course there are people advocating exactly that.

When he is found guilty of at least one felony, the Police Board (or whatever the governing body is called in Chicago) will terminate him.

How about if Abbate is only convicted of a misdemeanor? Should he keep his job then?

An awful lot of cops seem to think he never should have been charged with a felony in the first place.

Another possibility is Abbate being put on "call-back". This allows police personnel found to have committed serious misconduct to be placed in a holding status until reinstated, and NOT on the basis of innocence. Officer Cozzi, who sapped an elderly man handcuffed to a wheelchair was placed on "call-back". He is now off "call-back", but being Federally prosecuted for civil rights violations. It should come as no surprise that this has incited incandescent rage against the superintendent among the rank and file.

But again, this is directed more to the condemnations leveled at the bar patrons who failed to intervene on the barmaid's behalf.

Some people call them "cowards". Given the possible consequences of them intervening, do you consider that a fair criticism, especially given the response of the police, both immediately and in the intervening weeks and months?

 

[safearm]

So you do not believe that his activities shown in the video merit termination, even WITHOUT criminal prosecution?

What I believe, and what is the law, are two different things. As I stated, I thought his actions were reprehensible, not just as a police officer, but as a human being.
I can't speak to how things work in the Chicago PD, as I was never a part of that organization, but in other places where I have worked as a LEO (up to and including Chief of Police), the governing board has little flexibility once the individual has been arrested and charged. They, or the agency chief, can suspend pending prosecution, but they can't terminate as the individual has the right to due process (Sorry, but that's the 14th Amendment for you).
If the individual had never been arrested, certainly the governing board could have terminated him for something like "conduct unbecoming an officer." But then, he would have avoided prosecution.
It may take longer this way, but eventually he will be punished. Will he get what he deserves? That's up for speculation, but I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't be a police officer again, and that's a small comfort.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by safearm:

So you do not believe that his activities shown in the video merit termination, even WITHOUT criminal prosecution?

What I believe, and what is the law, are two different things. As I stated, I thought his actions were reprehensible, not just as a police officer, but as a human being.
I can't speak to how things work in the Chicago PD, as I was never a part of that organization, but in other places where I have worked as a LEO (up to and including Chief of Police), the governing board has little flexibility once the individual has been arrested and charged. They, or the agency chief, can suspend pending prosecution, but they can't terminate as the individual has the right to due process (Sorry, but that's the 14th Amendment for you).
If the individual had never been arrested, certainly the governing board could have terminated him for something like "conduct unbecoming an officer." But then, he would have avoided prosecution.
It may take longer this way, but eventually he will be punished. Will he get what he deserves? That's up for speculation, but I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't be a police officer again, and that's a small comfort.

You might wish to note the additions to my previous post regarding the Cozzi case, and based thereupon, reassess you certainty of Abbate's career being at an end. I wouldn't bet my life savings on it.

 

[handejector]

cmort,
I have dropped plenty of hints that I am tired of your obsession with bad cops.

We all know they exist, and bad stuff happens everyday in some form.

I am not particularly interested in seeing you discuss your pet peeve in life- bad cops, every day or two. That is not why I finance this board.

I am not seeking to deprive you of your freedom of speech. You can discuss bad cops anywhere in the world, and anywhere on the net they allow you to, but you are done discussing it here. I am simply tired of it.
If you start one more cop thread, you will be suspended, PERIOD < <