Barton Special Welt

[MonroeT]

I have read with interest a great number of posts regarding Threeperson and Brill holsters and their use of thicker, shaped welts to provide a friction retention hold on the gun. I've used this information to build a couple of holsters for Smith model 10's and it works as advertised.

I am now interested in building something along the line of a Barton's Special for 2" and 3" Model 10's. I like the look and convience of the paddle ( or at least the idea of it). I am guessing that the front and back covering of the trigger guard together with the pressure from the upper welt provides the retention for the revolver , although this may be wrong.

My question is whether or not the Barton welt down inside the holster provides the same interference fit with the frame as a Threeperson or a Brill? I have not found any photos or information on this point. Has anyone looked at this?

Also, I have seen photos of Baranti's Barton Special that seem to have an extra short tapered upper welt which adds a rear layer of leather to the unlined back. This was for an auto, but I haven't seen it in a revolver holster. Perhaps it provides some relief for mag release.

Any help or knowledge will be appreciated. I really like the look of these holsters.

Thanks

 

[rednichols]

I have read with interest a great number of posts regarding Threeperson and Brill holsters and their use of thicker, shaped welts to provide a friction retention hold on the gun. I've used this information to build a couple of holsters for Smith model 10's and it works as advertised.

I am now interested in building something along the line of a Barton's Special for 2" and 3" Model 10's. I like the look and convience of the paddle ( or at least the idea of it). I am guessing that the front and back covering of the trigger guard together with the pressure from the upper welt provides the retention for the revolver , although this may be wrong.

My question is whether or not the Barton welt down inside the holster provides the same interference fit with the frame as a Threeperson or a Brill? I have not found any photos or information on this point. Has anyone looked at this?

Also, I have seen photos of Baranti's Barton Special that seem to have an extra short tapered upper welt which adds a rear layer of leather to the unlined back. This was for an auto, but I haven't seen it in a revolver holster. Perhaps it provides some relief for mag release.

Any help or knowledge will be appreciated. I really like the look of these holsters.

Thanks

Your understanding is generally on the mark. Before the Brill scabbard, only the King Ranch included a welt stack inside its main seam -- and it was the holster that the Brill itself evolved from. The Threepersons evolved from the Brill by being a huge simplification of the latter's construction.

In revolvers the welts are placed closed enough to the main fold of the holster that they create pressure and friction against the frame. This is not done with automatics; and for them the makers including Brill and Myres stayed with the cupping of the trigger guard; and did so also with revolvers with short barrels such as a chopped Colt Army DA. And added a strap!

Any welt inside such a holster, and we see it most often in what we think of as a Hunter holster yet it was created first by Heiser well before Hunter existed, is primarily a stiffener yet one could use it to provide friction/tension against the trigger guard bow itself. In that case it need not extend right the way to the muzzle of the revolver holster; in fact, Arvo Ojala's welted holsters for the SA, which were specifically designed NOT to rub against the SA frame, stopped well short of the muzzle end anyway.

What a Barton Special really is, is the first of all holster paddles added to an otherwise standard Myres holster. And these paddles are inadequate compared with the injection molded polymer paddles that have been invented then popularized since circa 1990. Because they are not mounted stiffly from the holster body, but instead are folded out of them, drawing the pistol from a tight holster will cause the entire holster to shift outwards and could even pull the holster free of the waistband.



That said all excellent paddle holsters rely on there being a belt in the trousers loops. Trousers belts in loops did not appear until about 1905 and were one of the innovations that enabled the Sunday scabbard, aka the Brill, the appear then for the Texas Rangers. With a Barton Special one would surely want a trousers belt to be pressing the waistband into the gap at the panel below it, or wear on over the belt instead.

In modern times the New York makers have used the Barton method because it's something that one can make in a leather shop vs a plastic paddle; makers like DeSantis and Kramer. This is not an ideal form of paddle for the reasons mentioned.

 

[MonroeT]

Thanks Red. I would pretty much always have a belt on, but I take your point that if there is too much tension on the weapon the holster may twist interfering with the draw. I'll play around the idea some. I like the way open top holsters look when stamped or carved without a strap getting in the way.

 

[bruce5781]

Here are two of mine that I carry the most. An original Myres, for a 2" M&P, with a neutral cant, and a Barranti-Myres, for a Colt Commander, with a cross-draw configuration.

I did my best to get shots of the welts. The Myres seems to have a standard welt, while Doc's incorporates an extra piece to guard the magazine release.

The paddles on the Myres seem to be a thinner piece of leather over a stiffener of some sort, while the Barranti-Myres has a thicker piece of leather which may or may not incorporate a stiffener underneath. I normally wear both with the paddle inside my pants, but recently, I have experimented with wearing the Barranti-Myres just over my belt because that extra thickness on the paddle does a good job of grabbing the belt when pistol is drawn. However, I have never felt that either holster would leave my body when the gun was drawn. I generally wear mine in a cross-draw position, with the holster riding just behind my left pocket, so that I can easily access that pocket and when my hand is in my pocket, then the butt of the gun is protected from anyone but me pulling it. The holster is also trapped between my hip bone and my belt, which gives it a very secure feeling.

I wear a lined Vogt belt 1 1/4" that tapers to 3/4".

I do have to admit that I am a big fan of the Barton Specials. I currently have "The Mother of all Bartons" on order with Doc.

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[bruce5781]

Photos continued

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[MonroeT]

Thanks for the detailed pictures, Bruce. They clearly show the construction of the welts, both for revolver and for semi-autos. How secure is your two-inch? Where do you feel the friction points for retention? Is it generally around the cylinder? Is there any interference at the frame below the guard?

 

[boykinlp]

Bruce,
Outstanding holsters and pictures!!!
Larry

 

[bruce5781]

Thanks, Larry.

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[bruce5781]

Thanks for the detailed pictures, Bruce. They clearly show the construction of the welts, both for revolver and for semi-autos. How secure is your two-inch? Where do you feel the friction points for retention? Is it generally around the cylinder? Is there any interference at the frame below the guard?

The 2" is very secure. The holster impacts cylinder and the frame almost along its entire perimeter. Basically everywhere except the top of the barrel has friction, yet it is easy in, easy out.
The above photo of the inside welt shows how the trigger guard extends beyond the welt on both sides. I have enclosed a couple photos, trying to use the glare to outline the frame.

Regards
Bruce

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[MonroeT]

Thanks for the last photos. From the back and with the glare I can see where the holdter is making contact with the gun. Couldn't tell looking "thru" the carving. Almost a total gun friction fit.

Thanks