BATFE ID Requirements Change?

[elm_creek_smith]

I just got home from Academy Sports and Outdoors where I was ready to buy a Mossberg Maverick 88 Security 12 GA for $219. The young man at the counter asked if I had any government ID with my full middle name instead of just my middle initial like a passport or my Social Security card. He said that was "new guidance" from the BATFE. I just bought a Taurus 856 last month, and that "new guidance" wasn't effective then. ALL I have for photo ID is my OK "Real ID" drivers licence, my OK Handgun License (for carry out of state), and my DD FORM 2 (RETIRED)!

Has anyone else had this BS happen to them or know about it? If this turns out to be an Academy policy, they've seen the last dime from me they're ever going to get.

Sent with some arcane communications device.

 

[SMSgt]

Nope. My Mil ID is accepted by all Fed agencies and every state as legitimate identification. Sounds like BS to me.

 

[John Patrick]

Haven’t heard about it.

Sounds to me like a gun counter clerk who is a wannabe expert.

As an employee of Academy a lost sale means exactly zero to him. And guidance is just that, it’s not a rule change. An actual rule change requires public notice, comment period, …. actual work.

 

[Ruger 13]

Academy saw my last dime years ago!

 

[fordson]

Nope, think your clerk doesn’t know his job.

 

[sigp220.45]

I bought a gun at Sportsman’s last month and the counter guy had me do the computerized 4473 over because I spelled out STREET in my address and my DL says ST. I’ve had other places tell me spell it out. They make it up as they go along.

 

[deadin]

Sounds to me that the Batmen are breathing down their throats for past sins and they are running scared.....

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Okay, I just went to the ATF websites FAQ page concerning ID on the ATF Form 4473. It says that the transferee must provide a photo ID with the transferee's FULL LEGAL NAME. Supplemental documents can be used to verify the FULL LEGAL NAME but must be issued by a government agency! This is ********. There is no indication of when this change took place.

Here's the link:

Can item 26.b. on Form 4473, “Supplemental Government Issued Documentation,” be used to document a transferee’s additional government-issued documentation that establishes the transferee’s full legal name and/or current residence address? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Sent with some arcane communications device.

 

[mmande]

OK, I'm from Iowa, home to the most farmers and "good old boys" in the country. Our state issued drivers licenses have ALWAYS had our FULL LEGAL NAME on them. Are there states out there that just use an initial for the middle name? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[RCL-09]

I bought a gun at Sportsman’s last month and the counter guy had me do the computerized 4473 over because I spelled out STREET in my address and my DL says ST. I’ve had other places tell me spell it out. They make it up as they go along.

Weird. I've never heard such a thing. From working in gun shops, pawn shops, having had an FFL and still very connected to the firearms industry I never heard such a thing. It's always been the exact opposite, any abbreviation always had to be corrected to the full spelling.

 

[AJ]

If true I may have a problem. My first name is the initial A., wonder how that will fly?

 

[glenwolde]

It's a real issue. While you may have not have had a problem before, that doesn't mean the FFL didn't get a "critical error" for not verifying your middle name. Too many "criticals" and they yank your license.

Maybe they are stepping up enforcement? Doesn't matter. That's the ATF rules and if they didn't enforce them in the past, they are now.

Some people have no middle name ("NMN" to the BATFE). Some have an initial only ("IO" in BATFE lingo). As long as you tell them that's what it is, and give them no reason to think otherwise they will run with that. But if you tell them your middle name is "Robert" and that's not on your ID then the salesperson will call you on it.

They aren't there to help you get around the rules, they are there to enforce them. They are obligated too.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

OK, I'm from Iowa, home to the most farmers and "good old boys" in the country. Our state issued drivers licenses have ALWAYS had our FULL LEGAL NAME on them. Are there states out there that just use an initial for the middle name? Inquiring minds want to know!

Oklahoma just puts a middle initial on driver's licenses, handgun licenses, security guard licenses, hunting licenses, and police certification cards. My DD FORM 2 (RETIRED) US ARMY IDENTIFICATION CARD JUST HAS MY MIDDLE INITIAL IN THE BLOCK BELOW MY RANK AND SIGNATURE!

Sorry. Didn't mean to shout. I did find a document that has my FULL LEGAL NAME AND ADDRESS. So, tomorrow I will go back to academy with all my photo IDs and my wife's DEATH CERTIFICATE! Sorry about shouting again.

Sent with some arcane communications device.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

If true I may have a problem. My first name is the initial A., wonder how that will fly?

The guy said that if my middle name REALLY was just "A" that was fine. One of my uncle's name was J B (Last Name).

Sent with some arcane communications device.

 

[Dvus]

Oklahoma just puts a middle initial on driver's licenses, handgun licenses, security guard licenses, hunting licenses, and police certification cards. My DD FORM 2 (RETIRED) US ARMY IDENTIFICATION CARD JUST HAS MY MIDDLE INITIAL IN THE BLOCK BELOW MY RANK AND SIGNATURE!

Sorry. Didn't mean to shout. I did find a document that has my FULL LEGAL NAME AND ADDRESS. So, tomorrow I will go back to academy with all my photo IDs and my wife's DEATH CERTIFICATE! Sorry about shouting again.

Sent with some arcane communications device.

My OK. drivers license has my full middle name.

 

[minconrevo]

Oklahoma just puts a middle initial on driver's licenses, handgun licenses, security guard licenses, hunting licenses, and police certification cards. My DD FORM 2 (RETIRED) US ARMY IDENTIFICATION CARD JUST HAS MY MIDDLE INITIAL IN THE BLOCK BELOW MY RANK AND SIGNATURE!

Sorry. Didn't mean to shout. I did find a document that has my FULL LEGAL NAME AND ADDRESS. So, tomorrow I will go back to academy with all my photo IDs and my wife's DEATH CERTIFICATE! Sorry about shouting again.

Sent with some arcane communications device.

Seems to be a little inconsistency in OK governmental doc's. My OK DL has my full legal name. My recently renewed OK SDA (carry license for some of you) has my middle initial abbreviated. Others vary. Anyway the post may serve as good notice to those buying stuff that requires a 4473 to take along a pocket full of suitable ID. You may have one that suits the clerk that way.

 

[swsig]

The guy said that if my middle name REALLY was just "A" that was fine. One of my uncle's name was J B (Last Name).

Sent with some arcane communications device.

Reminds me of a story about a guy joining the Army who only had the initials R B instead of first and middle names. The clerk preparing his paperwork typed "R(only)" and "B(only)" in the spaces for his first and middle names. From that point on, his official Army name was Ronly Bonly.

 

[AJ]

Reminds me of a story about a guy joining the Army who only had the initials R B instead of first and middle names. The clerk preparing his paperwork typed "R(only)" and "B(only)" in the spaces for his first and middle names. From that point on, his official Army name was Ronly Bonly.

My name is A. John Glaser III. The first four years I was in the Corps. They could not understand having an initial for a first name. So I was John A. Glaser III. Upon my reenlistment I had enough rank for the admin chief to really listen to me and he finally straightened it out.

 

[cmansguns]

Same in VA...FULL legal name req'd

Been here in Virginia going on 34 years now. The VA DL has the full name, last, first, middle...no initials anywhere.

My FFL 03 is the same (FULL legal name) and I've had that for years too.

The clerks at the one LGS left in this area are also diligent about this and other blocks of info on form 4473, and they usually have to have two (2) other clerks with one being the handgun counter "manager" recheck the form for errors before they will transmit for approval.

PITA I know, but nobody wants a visit from the BATF guys to peruse the records I'm sure.

 

[LostintheOzone]

WA DL has my full middle name. I think it always has. That doesn't however guarantee a smooth transfer. Mine always run the full 10 days now. When the FFL used to do the BC using NICS it was almost always the full 3 days. I can only remember one transaction that happened immediately in maybe 15 years. The CMP even had problems with my BC for a pistol that was 75 years old.

That's OK. I have what I need. If I were denied tomorrow (which has never happened) I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. No government is perfect.