"Battle" rifle discussion ...

mc5aw

mc5aw

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Some of us regulars down at the small town LGS were discussing long guns, and the topic of personal "battle rifle" came up. We were talking about scenarios of civil unrest, rioting, etc. and not zombies running amok. It was interesting to note that the military vets were to a man satisfied with the AR in 5.56, while several non-vets were adamant about not going below .308. A couple fellows are Mosin collectors, so they expressed their affinity for that vintage make. Myself, I'm of the opinion that in the face of any outbreak of widespread violence and criminality, a stout 12 gauge with as many slugs and buck as possible would suffice. However, my first choice would be my quality AK, followed by a mint SKS. I don't anticipate Black Ops troops rappelling out of copters anytime soon, but if the poop does hit the prop I'll err on the side of as much 7.62x39 as I can carry. I figure if that isn't enough, then things have advanced far past the point of no return. Obviously opinions will differ based on subjective preferences, as well as geography, etc. but it was enlightening to hear divergent ideas from fellows I know and respect as neighbors, family men and lawful gun owners, (NOT tin foil brigade members, survivalists, conspiracy theorists, etc.)

Thoughts?
 
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Muley Gil said:
I carried an M4 as a police advisor in Afghanistan. I would have rather have had my Springfield Armory SOCCOM.

Nothing wrong with an SKS either.
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I owned a SOCOM 16 and was very impressed with its quality and precision out of the box. I consolidated calibers and sold it, but I wouldn't hesitate to own another if funds and need called for it.

I have a beautiful Chicom SKS from the late '80s, and the spike bayonet would make a formidable up close and personal deterrent.
 
I'm kicking it old school with my .303 Enfields starting with my WWI version (No.1 Mk.III) and then moving up through my WWII Enfields (No.4 Mk. I) and finally my No.5 Mk.1 Jungle Carbine. Will be working on my "mad minute" skills... The old "smellies" are quite the battle rifle with a great pedigree.
 
ive never actually seen one but a saw m-249 seems like a good choice.
or m14 if you want me to be realistic:) ...BUT...
surplus sks are everywhere for about $220 a "sardine can" full of ammo for $150 and youll still have cash to pick up all the s&w trade ins that would be sure to happen during that crisis :)
 
I would be comfortable with the AR. Especially if i had to tote it. That M1 weighs 9lbs 6oz unloaded. The only advantage over a shotgun would be available ammo.
 
Anything in my hand that will put out bullets fast and accurately to about 150 yards. Most people can't hit anything accurately past that distance anyway. If I'm attacked by hordes of screaming MeeMees, I'll escape and evade to fight another day. If no escape, death rather than capture.

Charlie
 
This is one veteran (72-75) who doesn't have and wouldn't own an AR. We had the M-16A1 and it was the most unreliable piece of junk I ever tried to use. :mad:
Otherwise it would depend on how the situation was developing. If the fighting was up close and personal, I'd grab my M1 Carbine. If the need was for power and range, I'd go with the Socom 16.
 
kamloops67 said:
ive never actually seen one but a saw m-249 seems like a good choice.
or m14 if you want me to be realistic:) ...BUT...
surplus sks are everywhere for about $220 a "sardine can" full of ammo for $150 and youll still have cash to pick up all the s&w trade ins that would be sure to happen during that crisis :)
Click to expand...

I carried one for my 4 years. Very prone to jamming if it isn't oiled perfect in all the right places. Granted, it'll send 20 rounds before it jams, but the whole world knows you've got a machine gun when you pull the trigger.

In survival mode, not being seen is the key. A silenced pistol is better than a machine gun in battles less than 5 people. If the battle is more than 10, your chances are in a flip of a coin.

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
 
I'd take any good rifle over none. Shotguns are great, cheap, and plentiful/widely accessible. Ar-15s are great, light, and common. If shtf my first rifle in my hands today is an m1 garand. Then I'm driving real far out.

I'm currently building an s&w m&p10 though. Medium/long hunter or sniper.

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
 
12 gauge shotgun (Remington M870)
.223 rifle
.30 cal rifle
.22RF rifle
9mm pistol
38/.357 revolver
.45acp pistol
My choice would be 12 gauge / 9mm pistol / 223 rifle for the reason of ammo availability ?? At present I don't think .22Rf would be practical as I have not seen any .22 ammo for a long time.
 
I love my AKs. Both 7.62 x39 and 5.45 x39. I'm no sharp shooter but using my AKs and my VZ58 I can reach out and tag targets center mass at 300 + yards. That's good enough for me. Of course I'm not against other quality firearms. I have a Colt and trust it and any quality FAL or HK.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
ive never actually seen one but a saw m-249 seems like a good choice.
Click to expand...

I have one (well my shop owns it), and quite honestly I'm not punking that monster around as a battle rifle.
They're twice as heavy, eat up ammo at an ungodly rate, require links, and accuracy is not their strong suit.
I'll stick with my M1A.
Accurate out to 800m, a devastating anti personnel round, and just plain sexy to boot.
 
I'd probably choose the FN-FAL. The Springfield M-1A might be a better choice, as more parts for M-14's might be available.

My son knows more about modern battle rifles, being a vet of the Iraqi war, three tours and one as a security contractor. He saw a lot of small arms in use and personally killed a considerable number of the enemy. He couldn't walk up on and check some, as too many bullets were flying. But a lot were definitely dead. One shot with a Beretta 9mm was hit across a room. He went down at once and died within a minute or so. Those hit with rifles usually died immediately, but he found the M-4 carbine limited beyond 200 meters or so. As a contractor, he preferred a H-K G-3 for missions where longer ranges mght be involved. He once had a nasty time engaging an enemy sniper at about 200 meters. The guy was behind an oil drum and the M-4 wasn't penetrating it. An Armor Piercing round or three finally did the job, with finishing shots required after the wounded man fell out into the open. He mounted some fancy scope on the G-3, but I forget what. He knows optics pretty well, and uses a Zeiss 3X9 on his Winchester M-70 Fwt. hunting rifle. Does Accutron sound right for the battle scope? I need to ask again.

As a civilian now, he likes his FAL, an AK-of some sort, and had a match grade M-1A. I'm quite sure that he'd be deadly with any of these. He knows such arms well, and is a literal genius, with IQ scores on par with those of a brilliant man whose name I won't mention, as some wouldn't believe the claim! I'm not about to disagree with any of his choices. I used his AK one afternoon to cut down a small tree. It was fun, but I think I could have done the same faster with a .303 or my .270. Or a 7.62mm FAL. I personally don't find the AK comfortable to use, esp. those with folding stocks.
 
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I've owned a lot of AR's thru the years and feel comfortable
with one so that is what i'd grab personally. Just as in a hunting
situation you would be best served to grab something familiar
and comfortable and a rifle you can hit what your shooting at.
No bad choices here. Just like favorite ice cream flavors.
Shoot whatever you shoot the best. All the downrange power
in the world won't help you if you can't hit whats coming after
you.

Chuck
 
AQBill said:
I'm kicking it old school with my .303 Enfields starting with my WWI version (No.1 Mk.III) and then moving up through my WWII Enfields (No.4 Mk. I) and finally my No.5 Mk.1 Jungle Carbine. Will be working on my "mad minute" skills... The old "smellies" are quite the battle rifle with a great pedigree.
Click to expand...

I'm with you. The rifle I trust in is my No.4 Mk 1 with the barrel cut to 20 inches. I carefully regulated the battle sight with small washers until it hits right above the front sight at 100 yds with my favorite 180 grain loads.
 
A few years back I'd said anything but an AR. I still prefer wood and steel for class and shooting, but the AR has proven itself to me.

It's hard for me to fault the aluminum and plastic that I once cussed.

I now own more AR platform long guns of various calibers and sizes than any other type.
 
Given the parameters outlined, i.e., urban unrest, rioting etc., I'd just reach over to the end of the couch and pick up my M-1 Garand. I carry it every morning when jogging/walking. It is about as light and easy to manage as anyone could want. Stuff it full of some nice M-2 AP and put a roll of duck tape in your pocket. You'll be able to fix just about anything you might end up facing!

In fact, if the truth be told, for a actual urban meltdown type situation, a 15-22 and a backpack full of loaded magazines would also work real well. After all, in a urban environment distance is not going to be the problem. Most folks are not going to want to stand up and take a round. With a 15-22 you could put accurate fire onto a target and carry a pile of ammo while running, ducking or anything else that might be necessary. Of course the smart thing would be to take that 15-22 or whatever rifle you were going to use and go to ground, i.e., get out of sight and stay out of sight.

If the situation is something more like Red Dawn 2.0, then I'd grab the M-1 and all the ammo I could carry. Soon as I found a loose AK-47... I'd swap for it and resupply with ammo from folks who no longer needed it.
 
Much like hand guns, I think it would be wise to first consider how you will use a battle rifle.

Probably the most important consideration is distance. If you live on some acreage, and can see your attackers coming from a distance and of course knowing that they are a threat I would choose a larger more effective caliber. The weight of the weapon would not be a factor for most.

It would be easy to leave that rifle and transition to a lighter one if they close the distance.

The ability of the user and tactics will determine the outcome. And those will differ from person to person.

There aren't too many "one size fits all rifles" out there in both caliber, size and weight but I think an AR in 7.62 x 39 or 308 would be ideal.
 
GyMac said:
I'm with you. The rifle I trust in is my No.4 Mk 1 with the barrel cut to 20 inches. I carefully regulated the battle sight with small washers until it hits right above the front sight at 100 yds with my favorite 180 grain loads.
Click to expand...

Can you post a pic? Which 180 grain load do you use? I like Winchester, but can't really say it works any better than Remington or Norma. I wish that Federal would load factory .303 with Nosler Partition bullets. I think Federal still loads .303 but I haven't seen any in years.

Keep spare exractor springs on hand for Enfields. I've had a couple break. Those are old rifles and some wartime parts may not have received the best heat treating .
 
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