I picked up this Bekeart 22-32 yesterday at a local auction. Ser # 139008. Serial number on the stock is 827. Is there a data base that shows which serial numbers were actually sent to Beheart?? Or do I need to get a letter?? This gun came up for auction several months ago and I hesitated and lost the bid. For some reason it came back for auction again(I'm pretty sure it is the same gun) and I got it this time. It's not in the greatest shape but considering the age not bad at all.
Bekeart 22-32
- Thread starter JP509
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It's in the 138225 to 139275 Bekeart range. The question is, did it ship to Phil Bekeart? Odds are, it did not, but still a strong possibility it might have. Get a letter, and make sure it's postmarked tomorrow. The price goes up 01 October.
Hello JP, I believe there are a few members compiling data on theses guns.
Are the grips Sn. to the gun on the inside of the right grip? Probably in pencil. Maybe hard to read. Bottom line, get a letter to verify the gun was shipped to Bekeart. If so, you got a gem. Now if the grips do not match the gun or you cant read the number, you can not verify that the three digit grip number belongs to that gun. Good luck.
Are the grips Sn. to the gun on the inside of the right grip? Probably in pencil. Maybe hard to read. Bottom line, get a letter to verify the gun was shipped to Bekeart. If so, you got a gem. Now if the grips do not match the gun or you cant read the number, you can not verify that the three digit grip number belongs to that gun. Good luck.
Mr. JP, you got a big gem. So the three digit grips belong to that gun,
but who was the gun shipped to? Send the letter out to Mr. Jinks.
Could be a Philip B. gun. Hope so! Then you have the big diamond.
but who was the gun shipped to? Send the letter out to Mr. Jinks.
Could be a Philip B. gun. Hope so! Then you have the big diamond.
Even if it's not 'the' big diamond, it could be one of the smaller diamonds:
The FOUR BASIC CLASSIFICATIONS of the “.22/32 Bekeart Model 1911” in order of their collectability and value are summarized below from the SCS&W, 3rd edition and other sources:
In April 25, 1911 an order for the 1st production run of 1050 serial #s, of the Model 1911 Bekeart models began in the serial range of # 138226 thru # 139275, completed on July 10, 1911. Only 1044 revolvers were actually completed/shipped and their grips were #’d 1 - 1044. The 1st 3000 guns were numbered 1 to 3000 on the butt of the left stock in the order that they were assembled.
1st classification, the "True" Bekearts, the “Model 1911 22/32 Bekeart HFTs” are the 294 (lately revised from 292 by Roy Jinks) from that original production run on the known serial number list within the above serial range that were actually shipped to Bekeart.
2nd class of Bekearts are the remainder of the guns in that 1044 production run and serial range that went to other dealers.
3rd class of Bekearts is the remainder with grip number order of assembly from #1045 to #3000, shipped to Bekeart or not, after which grip #s were discontinued, but there is no official factory 'list' of serial numbers for this class, albeit there are accumulated partial lists from lettered guns; the grip number and with grip serial number matching the gun, being sufficient to identify them along with a factory letter.
4th and last class, is any “22/32 Heavy Frame Target” from after the 1st production run that 'letters' as being shipped to Bekeart Sporting goods in S.F., since there is no official serial number list for this class.
Phil Bekeart, a San Francisco gun dealer, is credited with the concept of a larger (than the existing 7 shot .22 Long ‘M’ frame) .22 LR target revolver built on the I frame 1st called the “Model 1911 Bekeart Model, 22/32 HFT”. He agreed to order 1000 of the new model if S&W would produce it. When Smith added this model to regular production c.1915 it was given the model name of “22/32 Heavy Frame Target”, because relative to the tiny M frame Ladysmith, the only other Smith .22 at the time, it was a heavier frame. Changed to “22/32 Target” in ~ 1930 when the K22, a heavier, K frame .22 was introduced. The 32 in the name indicates it was made on the 32 S&W Long cartridge frame, the I frame.
A very similar model but with 4" barrel was introduced in 1935 and it’s the .22/32 Kit Gun.
Notes:
Roy Jinks, S&W Historian, states that the stock number indicates the sequence in which the gun was assembled. Or in other words, gun #138289 w/stock #289 was the 289th gun assembled. But it’s known by the serial number 138227, although the second serial #numerically in the 1st production run, it wasn’t shipped until the 4th Bekeart shipment. So it is evident as with most S&W guns, there was no rhyme or reason related to the serial # as to when guns were shipped by S&W.
Bekeart serial numbers were in the .32 Hand Ejector serial number series, so there are huge gaps in the Bekeart serial #s. For example, the next production run started at 160,000. Obviously the guns in between were .32 HEs.
The FOUR BASIC CLASSIFICATIONS of the “.22/32 Bekeart Model 1911” in order of their collectability and value are summarized below from the SCS&W, 3rd edition and other sources:
In April 25, 1911 an order for the 1st production run of 1050 serial #s, of the Model 1911 Bekeart models began in the serial range of # 138226 thru # 139275, completed on July 10, 1911. Only 1044 revolvers were actually completed/shipped and their grips were #’d 1 - 1044. The 1st 3000 guns were numbered 1 to 3000 on the butt of the left stock in the order that they were assembled.
1st classification, the "True" Bekearts, the “Model 1911 22/32 Bekeart HFTs” are the 294 (lately revised from 292 by Roy Jinks) from that original production run on the known serial number list within the above serial range that were actually shipped to Bekeart.
2nd class of Bekearts are the remainder of the guns in that 1044 production run and serial range that went to other dealers.
3rd class of Bekearts is the remainder with grip number order of assembly from #1045 to #3000, shipped to Bekeart or not, after which grip #s were discontinued, but there is no official factory 'list' of serial numbers for this class, albeit there are accumulated partial lists from lettered guns; the grip number and with grip serial number matching the gun, being sufficient to identify them along with a factory letter.
4th and last class, is any “22/32 Heavy Frame Target” from after the 1st production run that 'letters' as being shipped to Bekeart Sporting goods in S.F., since there is no official serial number list for this class.
Phil Bekeart, a San Francisco gun dealer, is credited with the concept of a larger (than the existing 7 shot .22 Long ‘M’ frame) .22 LR target revolver built on the I frame 1st called the “Model 1911 Bekeart Model, 22/32 HFT”. He agreed to order 1000 of the new model if S&W would produce it. When Smith added this model to regular production c.1915 it was given the model name of “22/32 Heavy Frame Target”, because relative to the tiny M frame Ladysmith, the only other Smith .22 at the time, it was a heavier frame. Changed to “22/32 Target” in ~ 1930 when the K22, a heavier, K frame .22 was introduced. The 32 in the name indicates it was made on the 32 S&W Long cartridge frame, the I frame.
A very similar model but with 4" barrel was introduced in 1935 and it’s the .22/32 Kit Gun.
Notes:
Roy Jinks, S&W Historian, states that the stock number indicates the sequence in which the gun was assembled. Or in other words, gun #138289 w/stock #289 was the 289th gun assembled. But it’s known by the serial number 138227, although the second serial #numerically in the 1st production run, it wasn’t shipped until the 4th Bekeart shipment. So it is evident as with most S&W guns, there was no rhyme or reason related to the serial # as to when guns were shipped by S&W.
Bekeart serial numbers were in the .32 Hand Ejector serial number series, so there are huge gaps in the Bekeart serial #s. For example, the next production run started at 160,000. Obviously the guns in between were .32 HEs.
I mailed the form today to get it lettered. It doesn't really matter to me whether it is a 1st classification Bekeart or 2nd, I'm just glad I was able to get it. Going to the range tomorrow. I did a thorough cleaning job on it but was unable to get the barrel bright and shiny. The lands and grooves are good but just dull. I used hoppes and a brass cleaning brush. Any ideas why it won't clean up better???
I stand corrected in other posts where I stated that the 4th degree of Bekeartness are those that were not numbered on the stocks irrespective of ship location. You further define as those not in the 1st production run that shipped to Bekeart. If so, shouldn't then there be a 5th degree of Bekeartness which would be the vast majority of production--those with unnumbered stocks not shipping directly to Bekeart?
The 4 classes each represent some degree of 'Bekeartness' premium value. Everything else, the vast majority, is not considered to have any Bekeartness and therefore do not have any premium value.
In fact by the time of what might be the '5th class', the Bekeart identifcation was dropped when it became a regular production model in 1915, and became just the ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target".
I think I regarded the second degree and most of the third degree of Bekeart guns to not be Bekeart at all and I would think that's where my concept of a fourth degree of Bekeartness, which would be an unclassified fifth degree of Bekeartness. Technically, the only "true" Bekeart guns are those received by Bekeart himself.
mrcvs,
You know, I can't disagree with you. The earliest guns actually shipped to Bekeart do have the highest premium (always contingent upon condition of course).
Apparently Bekeart collectors still put a premium on other early Bekeart Models even if not shipped to Bekeart. Maybe it's just a generic collecting thing, premiums for any early models. Also the first ~3000, the original agreement amount for S&W to make them, (which also have the assembly chronology # stamp on the butt of the left grip panel) were ordered by Bekeart, even though many did ship to other dealers.
Plus the early Bekearts were special production which have an appeal to some, prior to 1915 when they became standard production. Similar to today's Distributor Exclusive limited production models (perhaps the first DE Hand Ejectors) even if not all shipped to Bekeart.
The actual amount of the premiums by class are established on a sale-to-sale basis. And I believe that's how the 4 class levels (in the SCSW) came about. JSRIII is the guru on Bekearts so he can enlighten us much more than me.
You know, I can't disagree with you. The earliest guns actually shipped to Bekeart do have the highest premium (always contingent upon condition of course).
Apparently Bekeart collectors still put a premium on other early Bekeart Models even if not shipped to Bekeart. Maybe it's just a generic collecting thing, premiums for any early models. Also the first ~3000, the original agreement amount for S&W to make them, (which also have the assembly chronology # stamp on the butt of the left grip panel) were ordered by Bekeart, even though many did ship to other dealers.
Plus the early Bekearts were special production which have an appeal to some, prior to 1915 when they became standard production. Similar to today's Distributor Exclusive limited production models (perhaps the first DE Hand Ejectors) even if not all shipped to Bekeart.
The actual amount of the premiums by class are established on a sale-to-sale basis. And I believe that's how the 4 class levels (in the SCSW) came about. JSRIII is the guru on Bekearts so he can enlighten us much more than me.
I just received my letter from the SWHF and it seems I have a ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target Model (Bekeart Model), First Production Variation, caliber .22 Long Rifle", delivered to Norvell Shapleigh Hardware Co. St. Louis on Aug 25 1911. I am proud to own it.
Serial number 138977 also shipped on 8-25-11.
I thought it more apropos to resurrect this thread than to create a new one.
I have one that shipped February 1914 and it was the single largest order for this model. Any ideas where that might have been? I’ll know for sure once I get the factory letter.
My guess is it’s Shapleigh Hardware in St Louis. I’d like to think it is a later shipment to Phil Bekeart (there are digits stamped on the base of the left stock), but this seems unlikely.
I have one that shipped February 1914 and it was the single largest order for this model. Any ideas where that might have been? I’ll know for sure once I get the factory letter.
My guess is it’s Shapleigh Hardware in St Louis. I’d like to think it is a later shipment to Phil Bekeart (there are digits stamped on the base of the left stock), but this seems unlikely.
The largest shipments went to M.W. Robinson, New York City, S & W's oldest distributor.
Jan. 14, 1914 or 2/19/14 was a shipment to them of 490 guns serial range 207926 to 208416.
Another order shipped to them 3/19/14.
Jan. 14, 1914 or 2/19/14 was a shipment to them of 490 guns serial range 207926 to 208416.
Another order shipped to them 3/19/14.
How late did Smith & Wesson ship to M W Robinson? I’m surprised they were still a major player this late in the game.
Sorry, I don't know.
