Bekeart models and .22/32 HFT's

[JSR III]

tt66, all of the 384,XXX numbered guns and several of the 386,XXX guns in my database shipped in either September, October or November of 1923. Again, nothing is certain with S&W shipping dates but barring a fluke I would say it is a good bet that your gun shipped in one of those months.

I already had it listed in my database without shipping date or destination so most likely I got the information here on the forum from another member or from one of the online auction sights.

The last patent date is most likely Sept of 09 and not 08 as all I have seen are either 09 or 14.

 

[JSR III]

Still looking for guns to add. Anyone own a .22/32 HFT that hasn't been added? I am especially interested in ones from the first 2500-3000 with a number on the bottom of the left stock.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

James
Another .22/32 to add to your list. The serial number is 0232. it is a Club Gun. The records show it was shipped with two other .22/32's, serial numbers are 0230 & 0231. They were signed out to Colonel Douglas B. Wesson on April 3, 1915. There is a barrel included with it, same serial number 0232, it is bulged. The finish is 98%. it has two factory return dates on it, they are 5.46 and 4.2.79.

 

[Hondo44]

Don,

Very interesting! May I ask if the 4 line address stamp had been added to the right frame side, possibly in the '79 return to the factory?

And wouldn't that bulged barrel make a nice #s matching 4" barrel!! Oh, sorry, my imagination ran amok for a moment.

Thanks,

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Jim
No nothing on the frame, not even Made in USA.
I already have a two inch .22/32 Club Gun.
Don

 

[DECAR]

Here is 399405 that I understand dates to 1925. I'm not real smart on these guns so I'll just post some photos. The stocks do match the gun as do all major parts.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim
No nothing on the frame, not even Made in USA.
I already have a two inch .22/32 Club Gun.
Don

Wow, a pre war vintage 2".

I have a 3 3/8" that suffered a bulged barrel and a refinish. Makes a great shooter for the grandkids.

 

[Boxhead]

My recently acquired one. My first early Smith. I actually had no idea what I was buying but at $500 it had to come home. I just picked it up from Cabelas in Buda Texas after they shipped it from their Post Falls Idaho store where I found it. Serial number is 495708. All numbers match. I am just sorting photos since PB's "demise". Let me know what more you would like.

 

[JSR III]

Thanks all for the entries. Please keep them coming. I now have over 2,000 entries in the database and many thanks to you all.

If posting information, I need:

Serial number, stock imprint number 1-3,000, shipping date, destination, type of stocks, front sight, recessed chambers or not, condition, size extractor knob, logo size and location and last patent date (usually 09 or 14), box, and any unusual features.

Anyone needing an approximate shipping date, let me know.

 

[series guy]

At yesterday's gun show I looked at a 205xxx numbered gun with a Paine front sight and non matching barrel number. The rear sight is missing. I would like to make an offer on the gun today but I'm concerned about finding a replacement rear sight. Does anybody have one they would part with? The stocks have a number on the bottom that I can't remember. Any info would be appreciated.

 

[series guy]

Well I took a chance and bought the gun. Serial number 208271 on the frame, cylinder, and right grip. Number 226045 on the barrel. Grip number is 2419. Has the Paine front sight, small logo on the right side of the frame, large ejector rod knob, no USA markings and a non recessed cylinder. Stocks are two screw with the recessed gold medallions. The rear sight is missing if anybody has one they can part with.

 

[DCWilson]

Going out on a limb with this suggestion, but I think 208271 may have been part of a shipment to M.W. Robinson in NYC. 490 units were ordered and perhaps delivered over a period of months. No. 208410, bearing grips no. 2431, was shipped 2/27/14.

With a different serial number, the barrel is an obvious replacement. Consistency of numbers on the remaining parts is consistent with a simple barrel swap at a later date.

Any I-frame rear sight from the 'teens or early '20s ought to serve your purpose. It's good you still have the mounting screw. It doesn't have to be a .22/32 sight. A rear sight from an early .32 HE Target would also work, but you are less likely to find one. The .22/32 targets outnumber the .32 HE Targets by more than 10 to 1..

After 1923, rear I-frame target sights could have wider notches because the wider patridge front sight became standard on these guns. I would buy any rear target sight from before 1940, and if it doesn't have a round-bottom notch, you should look for such a rear-sight blade that you could use to replace whatever is in the rear sight when you get it.

Great score of an iconic early S&W. Congratulations. When you shoot it, please restrict yourself to standard velocity .22 LR. The high speed .22 LR ammo wasn't introduced until a couple of decades later, and S&W didn't start enhanced heat treating of their cylinders until a few years after your revolver was produced. I doubt the gun would come apart in your hands, but why stress something that is over a century old?

 

[series guy]

Thank you for the info. I saw the mention of the Robinson shipment in some earlier posts. Do you know if the later sights changed in physical size or just the sight blade?

 

[Hondo44]

No, the 22/32 rear sight did not change in size or style, even on the post war guns all the way up to 1953! But they're almost impossible to find. I suppose that's why the sight on the one you bought was cannibalized for another gun.

Clements made exact reproductions at one time in four sizes for $95, you might check with him.


Also, the K and N frame pre war sight can be adapted:

the I frame 22/32 sight is .200" wide,
the K is .244" wide and,
the N frame is .250" wide.

On the N frame, by shortening the front end of the tang and dressing the end to be flush with your top strap, and narrowing the width, only the front mounting hole must be redrilled.

On the K frame, which is shorter than the N frame; by shortening the front end of the tang, narrowing the width, and drilling a new front mounting hole, they will work but will need a spot of tig weld to fill the 'half moon' of the original mounting hole at the front end.

Sending you a PM.

 

[Hondo44]

When you shoot it, please restrict yourself to standard velocity .22 LR. The high speed .22 LR ammo wasn't introduced until a couple of decades later, and S&W didn't start enhanced heat treating of their cylinders until a few years after your revolver was produced. I doubt the gun would come apart in your hands, but why stress something that is over a century old?

David,

I agree to use only standard velocity .22 LR. However, I believe it's not a strength issue of the cyl, but one of the Hi Velocity case rim weakness. The change to recessed 22 chambers reportedly at ~ # 525600, by change order dated Jan 7,1935 was to address the issue of Hi Vel. bursting case heads in non-recessed chambers.

But as you say, limiting to use of LR ammo only is a good policy and will eliminate all concerns.

 

[JSR III]

Well I took a chance and bought the gun. Serial number 208271 on the frame, cylinder, and right grip. Number 226045 on the barrel. Grip number is 2419. Has the Paine front sight, small logo on the right side of the frame, large ejector rod knob, no USA markings and a non recessed cylinder. Stocks are two screw with the recessed gold medallions. The rear sight is missing if anybody has one they can part with.

Your gun is definitely one of the 490 guns shipped to M.W. Robinson in 1914. There were a total of five shipments going out on 1/31, 2/18, 2/21, 2/27 and 3/18/1914. Due to the high serial number, I would think that yours went out in either the 2/27 or 3/18 shipment. But just a guess. The guns are consecutively numbered between 207926 and 208415 however like most S&W's they did not ship in serial number order. As an example 207971 which is fairly low in this serial number block shipped in the final shipment on 3/19. Your barrel, 226045 is from a gun that most likely shipped two years later in 1916.

So one never knows. The rear sights are almost impossible to find and I have seen several guns with broken or missing rear sights. My belief is that if the rear screw is over tightened without loosening the front screw, the base cracks at the front screw. I have even seen one example where someone tried epoxy to glue the base back together.

Clements mentioned in Hondo's post is 6 months out taking orders for these sights. He won't take any orders until he clears out his backlog.

I hope that helps.

Do you have a photo of the S&W logo as I think that it is the medium size?

 

[series guy]

I was lax in updating this thread. I hadn't wanted to jinx myself so I kept quiet until the project was complete. I found a rear sight on gunbroker with a cylinder, hammer, trigger and other parts for $250. The strange part was that running concurrently was an ad for a .22/32 that lettered as being shipped to a member of the Wesson family. It too was missing its rear sight. The starting bid on that gun was around $2200 I think. Now if you are trying to get $2k+ for a .22/32 you would think $250 would be a cheap investment to make the gun complete. Lucky for me the seller didn't think my way and I got the parts to complete my gun. The sight was about 15 years newer than my gun and the elevation screw had a head on it that didn't allow the sight to sit tight on the frame notch. I purchased a small end mill and chucked the gun up in a friend's Bridgeport and milled a spot .050" deep. All is well now and the sight fits well and the gun shoots very well. And to help out I sold the hammer that came with the sight for $100.

 

[JSR III]

Just to add a little to the conversation, the rear sight blade is determined by the front sight. The Paine or other style bead front sights come with the U notch rear sight blade and the Patridge front sights come with a square notch rear blade.

The problem with trying to use sight styles to determine the vintage of the gun is that S&W would ship a gun with whatever they had available if the customer requested same and was willing to pay any additional charge if any. Even though the majority of the early guns came with the Paine front sight and the U notch rear, I have an early Bekeart shipped gun that was equipped with a Patridge sight and square notch rear.

Likewise, I have late shipped guns equipped with the Paine front sight and U notch rear.

Only a letter will say for sure but you must specify the question in the request because the letter template that they use may have to be changed manually.

 

[Oldtimer1]

Smith & Wesson Bekhart

I am putting together a database of information about the Bekeart models and the subsequent .22/32 HFT's. I have close to 350 guns in the database so far and I am asking for your help to add any additional numbers to the list. I have obvious headings like serial number, stock sequence number, date shipped, destination, stock style, front sight, recessed chambers, condition and modifications/inclusions.

Things like bobbed hammers, knob style etc., are listed under the modifications.

If anyone has any that they would like to add to the list, please supply the details. Should you not want to post the information publicly, feel free to PM or email me and no names will be attached to any information.

If you own a .22/32 and just want to see if I have any information about your gun, please feel free to ask.

Many folks think that if their gun is numbered between 138,226 and 139,275 that it went to Bekeart, however, that is not correct. For example, 138,226 did not and neither did 139,274.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I recently bought, but have not taken possession of a 22/30 Smith in the Bekheart Design, but the Serial number is 458375, way too high. The gun is in rough cosmetic condition but seems to be in great mechanical condition.Cylinders are not recessed, square butt. Can you explain the high serial number? [email protected]

 

[JSR III]

I recently bought, but have not taken possession of a 22/30 Smith in the Bekheart Design, but the Serial number is 458375, way too high. The gun is in rough cosmetic condition but seems to be in great mechanical condition.Cylinders are not recessed, square butt. Can you explain the high serial number? [email protected]

Sorry I did not respond earlier but just saw the thread. Not sure what explanation you are looking for. These guns were made into the 40's and 50's and up to almost the 600,000 serial number range. Based on the serial number it most likely shipped in late 1927 but no guarantees without a letter.