Belt Help

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I owned a Beltman bullhide gun belt for years. Great belt, but it mysteriously shrank over that time to where it no longer fits. Funny how that happens.

Anyway, I’ve been using a Kore tactical click belt and while impressive, it doesn’t/can’t seem to break in and is not that comfortable. Nothing like a leather belt that’s taken a “set” and conformed to the body.

I’m in the market for a hell-for-stout leather gun belt and am looking for suggestions on the toughest and best made. I carry some heavy handguns OWB so need a very sturdy belt.

Thanks for the help!
 
I've said all my lengthy career: if someone needs a stout trousers belt for their holstered pistol, then instead he/she needs to buy a better holster. A well-designed holster does not rely on the belt to keep the pistol upright. E.g., most likely the holster is carrying the pistol too high above the belt. Many name brands do it no better than the others because they're still making the designs of the '70s when we all over-relied on the wide hippie belts of the time.

How about a look at the holster/pistol you're wanting to support better?
 
I bought 3 Versacarry belts this summer. 2-ply, well made, and the price is right, especially if you hit a sale. The last few weeks I've been carrying a PC 629 2-5/8 in a Kramer belt scabbard and you wouldn't even know its there.

I'm familiar with the shrinking belt phenomenon also, I had to replace my competition belt last year!
 
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Beltman is still in business with new ownership and location. From what I've heard no difference in the quality of their belts.

Just ordered one. Never had one before but this one is a very high quality product. Ordered on the 22nd and received on the 25th. A pleasant transaction.
 
I've said all my lengthy career: if someone needs a stout trousers belt for their holstered pistol, then instead he/she needs to buy a better holster. A well-designed holster does not rely on the belt to keep the pistol upright. E.g., most likely the holster is carrying the pistol too high above the belt. Many name brands do it no better than the others because they're still making the designs of the '70s when we all over-relied on the wide hippie belts of the time.

How about a look at the holster/pistol you're wanting to support better?

Red, don't you think that some holsters are deliberately designed to carry the gun high above the belt, the intention being concealment? E.g., the Galco Combat Master or various other modern makers' pancakes. For such holsters, which are popular nowadays due to the prevalence of legal concealed carry, it seems to me a heavy, thick belt, fairly rigid, is helpful in comfortably stabilizing the gun, and keeping it tucked in close under the ribs.

Re leather belt recommendations: I have Mitch Rosen, Kramer and Beltman 1.5" belts. They are all good, with perhaps the edge going to Kramer, but the Beltman is lower priced and far, far faster delivery than the other two.
 
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Check out the Mitch Rosen 'value line' models.

1.5" thick and sturdy for around $80. They ship pretty quick because they are pre-made.

Nothing fancy, like his non-value line items but a great sturdy belt.
 
Red, don't you think that some holsters are deliberately designed to carry the gun high above the belt, the intention being concealment? E.g., the Galco Combat Master or various other modern makers' pancakes. For such holsters, which are popular nowadays due to the prevalence of legal concealed carry, it seems to me a heavy, thick belt, fairly rigid, is helpful in comfortably stabilizing the gun, and keeping it tucked in close under the ribs.

Re leather belt recommendations: I have Mitch Rosen, Kramer and Beltman 1.5" belts. They are all good, with perhaps the edge going to Kramer, but the Beltman is lower priced and far, far faster delivery than the other two.
Darn it, I've been found out! I did NOT know about that functionality. Back to 70s holster school for me ;-)
 
I use the Aker Concealed Carry belt. Polymer lined, doesn't allow the holster to flop around. But, very comfortable. Around $81.

KAC
 
My first choice is Rick Garcia and he will do horse or cow hide. Second choice is Tucker but they have Looong delivery dates as of lately.
 
I've said all my lengthy career: if someone needs a stout trousers belt for their holstered pistol, then instead he/she needs to buy a better holster. A well-designed holster does not rely on the belt to keep the pistol upright. E.g., most likely the holster is carrying the pistol too high above the belt. Many name brands do it no better than the others because they're still making the designs of the '70s when we all over-relied on the wide hippie belts of the time.

How about a look at the holster/pistol you're wanting to support better?

You're the expert holster designer, and I'm not, I'm just a peon, but I can't agree with this. For over 40 years I've bought nothing but the best holsters from Sparks, Kramer, Rosen, and Null. They offer gun belts from 1 1/4" up to 1 3/4" and some places 2". Even the best newer holsters with a low carry axis don't carry very well with common clothing store belts.
So their belts are a waste of money and they are just trying to make an extra sale from the buyer? Tell me, please.
Every major holster maker says you need a dedicated gun belt. Ken Null was the first holster maker to reveal this to me as a neophyte when he was still in PA. decades ago. At first, I didn't take his advice, but over time I learned he was right. A K Mart belt affixed to the best holster still carries lousy, shifts around and becomes uncomfortable over the course of a day of carrying (unless the user is just strapping it on for a few minutes to get coffee and a doughnut at the 7/11 and removing his rig when he gets home). I never did buy the Null belt at $90 (at that time). I thought it was too expensive. Now I buy Kramer gun belts that cost $155 and although I wish they cost less, they are far better than a single layer belt I can get at Macy's or wherever.

I use the excellent Tony Kenealy designed Sparks made VM2 IWB holsters for large semi autos and revolvers, the Kramer IWB nos. 2 and 3 for small revolvers and small semi autos, Kramer belt scabbards for OTB holsters and the old Bruce Nelson designed Summer Specials (only occasionally now). Except for
the summer special, these are not ancient designs, and none of these are high axis designs like the Galco Silhouette or the Buchheimer semi shoulder holster. I don't think high axis holsters are very popular any more, at any rate.

Any era holster benefits from a good gun belt
 
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The O.P. states he carries heavy handguns. He needs a good gun belt even if he has the best modern designed holster, regardless of the belt width.
You can get away with a crappy single layer belt if you are carrying a lightweight small gun, not a gun weighing approx. 32 oz. or more and of large size.

I prefer the Kramer horse hide 1 1/2" belts over other brands. I have several but even the first one I bought in the early 90s is still solid.

For me, the Sparks belt in cow hide is a disappointment. I also have 2 of them. The oldest one, about the age of my first
Kramer, is as floppy as a wet noodle. Sparks will tell you the arc they cut
their belt to, mimics a comfortable broken in regular belt. This also means it's kind of already pre-worn. They also just don't measure well compared to a straight cut belt you can break in yourself over time.
I have found that whatever my waist size is, the Sparks belt will require about a 2" longer belt than what I normally need, even knowing how to correctly measure the belt, whether using for IWB or OWB. Their shaped belt is just a gimmick to me. The Sparks holsters themselves are very good.

I carry every day for hours at a time, for what it's worth.
 
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Hands down the absolute best gun belt that I've discovered is the Gingerich western line. Best looking too. Available at most any western wear store.

Under $50 and American made, 3/16" thick solid leather. They outshine every other belt I've ever worn. Very high quality, comfortable leather.

I carry some heavy iron too. Everyday, everywhere.

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You're the expert holster designer, and I'm not, I'm just a peon, but I can't agree with this. For over 40 years I've bought nothing but the best holsters from Sparks, Kramer, Rosen, and Null. They offer gun belts from 1 1/4" up to 1 3/4" and some places 2". Even the best newer holsters with a low carry axis don't carry very well with common clothing store belts.
So their belts are a waste of money and they are just trying to make an extra sale from the buyer? Tell me, please.
Every major holster maker says you need a dedicated gun belt. Ken Null was the first holster maker to reveal this to me as a neophyte when he was still in PA. decades ago. At first, I didn't take his advice, but over time I learned he was right. A K Mart belt affixed to the best holster still carries lousy, shifts around and becomes uncomfortable over the course of a day of carrying (unless the user is just strapping it on for a few minutes to get coffee and a doughnut at the 7/11 and removing his rig when he gets home). I never did buy the Null belt at $90 (at that time). I thought it was too expensive. Now I buy Kramer gun belts that cost $155 and although I wish they cost less, they are far better than a single layer belt I can get at Macy's or wherever.

I use the excellent Tony Kenealy designed Sparks made VM2 IWB holsters for large semi autos and revolvers, the Kramer IWB nos. 2 and 3 for small revolvers and small semi autos, Kramer belt scabbards for OTB holsters and the old Bruce Nelson designed Summer Specials (only occasionally now). Except for
the summer special, these are not ancient designs, and none of these are high axis designs like the Galco Silhouette or the Buchheimer semi shoulder holster. I don't think high axis holsters are very popular any more, at any rate.

Any era holster benefits from a good gun belt

Look, I'm actually trying to teach something here. There's the old joke about the kid encountered banging a post on the ground. "Why are you banging the post on the ground?", he's asked. "To keep lions away".

"But there are no lions here!".

"See, It works!".

Stiff wide gunbelts are promoted by people who don't know any better, because the belts appeared in the '70s and they haven't learned a darned thing since the '70s. They even make the same holsters. So Tony at Sparks and I nearly came to blows over this one, because he only learned what Milt knew; and Milt only knew what he'd copied from Andy; and Andy only knew what he'd learned in the Fifties!!. But I've been part of the making of tens of millions of holsters and never stopped learning.

Great example: the Askins Avenger of the '70s. JB and I created this one and JB insisted on making it very high riding. But to keep it from tipping outward, a heavy belt had to be used. So the myth of 'get a good gunbelt' appeared. My final version of an Avenger? Not topheavy in the slightest, use any belt you like, guaranteed to fit right out of the box.

Since that time I've created many, many, many new models of holsters for many, many more companies than Bianchi. Because I can't make myself copy. Which then drives innovation. And during that process I learned new things, like how to position the holstered pistol 'just right' vertically so that a wide belt is not needed. I literally used a WalMart belt I bought for the purpose. I call it 'floating the pistol' and the Sparks people, on another forum, were furious. We ended up in court!

All that's needed from a waistbelt is (1) a holster with an ideal center of gravity design, (2) a belt tunnel the same width as the belt's width, and (3) stiffness ACROSS the width of the belt only. Thickness is irrelevant, stitching only prevents stretching. You will find that a curved belt is best on men and women; mine was triple curved, like a snake. Wear one every day.

Yes, I know all these gunleather makers personally, and I'm saying that there's a LOT they don't know about their trade. Their business? Well, that they do know.

I no longer build becasue I declined to be a part of the striker-fired pistol fiasco; none of these makers declined that business yet the likes of Safariland, who once used to be a premier maker, compounded the problem when they created their lightbearing holsters. These people DO know their BUSINESS, but they aren't concerned with yours.
 
I appreciate your kind and reasoned reply.
I'm not sure I agree with ignoring belt design when pairing with a holster, but I wanted your take on it.
Thanks,
Mike
 
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I got a belt from TT Gunleather a couple years ago when I ordered a holster. I wear it nearly every day and it still looks nearly new. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.

FWIW that first holster I ordered from TT Gunleather was for a 3” Model 66. Whatever OWB holster I had bought for that gun rode too high and the butt always felt like it was tipping out, no matter what belt I wore or how tight it was. Drove me crazy. That revolver only rides about 1/2” lower in the TTGL holster, but that 1/2” makes all the difference in the world.
 
I appreciate your kind and reasoned reply.
I'm not sure I agree with ignoring belt design when pairing with a holster, but I wanted your take on it.
Thanks,
Mike

Thanks for that. I haven't ignored belt design, I've upended it. I'm saying that everyone ELSE has ignored belt design by saying 'get a wide stiff belt' so their holsters don't tip your pistol out on the ground!

Here's one that needs such a belt.

Then one that does not.

The difference is that the carry angle, and the carry height, are poor on the Galco (the uppermost brown one); and your gauge for that is the cylinder being above the waistbelt line.

The black one, by Hume, is ideal as to carry angle and carry height. Your gauge is the same: cylinder now is coplanar with the width of the belt.

If one were to take the Galco and use an 8-3/8" barrel on the revolver, you'd like it auite a lot, because a well designed holster lays the pistol verticallly along the body to support the pistol above and below. It is not HANGING from the belt.

With the Hume one can use any barrel length; it cannot be top heavy by virtue of its design. Real gunleather makers don't know this! And instead are copying old designs.

Doesn't help that we're all left to buy online now; and virtually no maker shows the backside of their holsters so that you can see how the holster carries your holster on the belt. Nor do they speak much about the tunnel width on their holsters.

Great thing about innovation: when one doesn't copy, one comes up with a better way. My now-discontinued version of the Avenger (the final image) floats the pistol around your waistbelt of any design because it is exactly the right height and angle. Use of horsehide prevents the leather becoming soft and allowing the holster to sag away from the body.

Not a thread hijack: the right holster obviates 'get a good gunbelt' which, if you look at all the responses, are by brand; which makes them 'lodge pins": get this brand and you will 'belong'. Vs "find a belt with the following features". Folks do the same with holsters: but not all models of holsters from the same maker are excellent (Galco is good example) because some are **** and some are great. Different designers within the company, in different eras.
 

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My discontinued Avenger holster image didn't appear in my prior post, my error I'm sure.

Also, here's my final take on 'gunbelts' (trousers belts used for carrying pistols).
 

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I got a belt from TT Gunleather a couple years ago when I ordered a holster. I wear it nearly every day and it still looks nearly new. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.

FWIW that first holster I ordered from TT Gunleather was for a 3” Model 66. Whatever OWB holster I had bought for that gun rode too high and the butt always felt like it was tipping out, no matter what belt I wore or how tight it was. Drove me crazy. That revolver only rides about 1/2” lower in the TTGL holster, but that 1/2” makes all the difference in the world.

You've nailed it! It's not the belts, it's the holsters. If I were in USA I would find a way to offer personal fitments to real gunmen, as did Paris Theodore in his time. Impossible where I am (coppers here aren't even allowed to carry their pistols when they are off duty!). That would then leave only the Australian Federal Police and all LEO agencies are in the pocket of Safariland here; and they don't like me so would interfere (as they have in the past in USA).
 

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But, if you wanted to carry your pistola, for maximum concealment, in a very high ride holster such as this:



Then a thick, very stiff, gunbelt would make it possible, even comfortable, well tucked into the body, and secure.

A regular dress belt, it would flop right on over.

Ya know, I think we are saying the same thing, Red. I'm just trying to make room for high ride concealment holsters for those among us who carry, don't like IWB, but want to conceal.

The other thing is, as we all know, what works with holsters is a very individual thing. One guy's great holster for his model pistol is another guy's disaster for his. Which is why most of us fool around with a variety of holsters over time to find those that work for us.
 
But, if you wanted to carry your pistola, for maximum concealment, in a very high ride holster such as this:



Then a thick, very stiff, gunbelt would make it possible, even comfortable, well tucked into the body, and secure.

A regular dress belt, it would flop right on over.

Ya know, I think we are saying the same thing, Red. I'm just trying to make room for high ride concealment holsters for those among us who carry, don't like IWB, but want to conceal.

The other thing is, as we all know, what works with holsters is a very individual thing. One guy's great holster for his model pistol is another guy's disaster for his. Which is why most of us fool around with a variety of holsters over time to find those that work for us.

You're only proving my point :-). If your carry setup needs 'a good gunbelt' then the holster is substandard; in this case, top heavy. Take it from me, I designed it and Galco copied it, line for line! It's the Bianchi "Black Widow".
 
Interesting that you designed the holster, Red. When you designed it, what were you hoping to achieve?
 
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Interesting that you designed the holster, Red. When you designed it, what were you hoping go achieve?

It was an assignment, designed to help counter the Baker patent given that Hume was making the slide holster prior to that patent.

Take a look at the next post after mine. Like trying to teach used bricks. I'll leave this thread for now, the subject will come up again on this or another forum sooner or later; usually followed by 'I carry AIWB and I'm not dead yet, you should try it too". On one forum there was a member who LOOKED for my new posts about the dangers of true appendix carry, so he/she could argue its merits! Since then I decided to let God sort it out.
 
Thanks for the response, Red. I'll leave it alone going forward. It's all good.

(I really do appreciate your knowledgeable posts, as I am sure all of us here with an interest in holstory do, and do not want to chase you off with nitpickin' differences of opinion.)
 

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