Reasons the above pistols are not offered in 9mm ?
Beretta and Gersun .380 "Tip Up" Barrel Pistols
- Thread starter jimmyj
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
They are blow back designs.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,435
- Reaction score
- 1,345
While it would theoretically be possible to make a 9mm version due to the higher pressure of the 9X19 round the resulting gun would have to be a lot heavier to actually work. There have been blowback handguns in 9mm but they depend on the weight of the slide (and usually some very stout springs) to keep the slide closed long enough for pressures to drop to a safe level. Which is why almost all 9mm handguns use some type of locking mechanism.
I believe the Beretta 92 and clones are blowback designs, but they have massive slides.
THE PILGRIM
Member
Had a Detonics Pocket 9. Small stainless Cutey!
Blow Back!
Springs so strong they were marked Caterpillar!
Hard to rack? Nigh on impossible!
Blow Back!
Springs so strong they were marked Caterpillar!
Hard to rack? Nigh on impossible!
Last edited:
LVSteve
Member
Nope. The Beretta 92 uses a pivoting locking block to keep the breech closed as your fire.
I stand corrected.
Still not a Beretta 92 fan. Too big and bulky and I don't like the safety.
Glenn R. McMannly
Member
They are.
But only 9mm Corto.
But only 9mm Corto.
sousana
Member
Sounds like my Tisas Fatih. I need superman to rack the freaking slide.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,435
- Reaction score
- 1,345
The beretta 92 series is a locked breech design. Uses the same locking system as the Walther P-38 with a tilting locking block. The smaller Beretta 84 series in 380 resembles a 92 but it is a simple blowback design which can handle the lower power cartridge without a locking system.
And now that I've read the rest of the responses, I see that others already answered this.............
Last edited:
To elaborate further on other replies, its actually easier to say why Beretta is able to make tip up barrel designs in calibers like .32 ACP:
They're able to do this in smaller chamberings because the barrel is fixed to the frame, so it's easy to simply add a pivot at the nose. This does come at a cost, the guns have no extractors, because there would be no cheap and easy way to design an extractor that would hook over the rim after you'd loaded the chamber directly.
With a chambering like 9mm Parabellum, you theoretically can have a fixed barrel by using something like a gas or mechanically delayed blowback design, but this may not work reliably because of the lack of an extractor.
Basically, 9mm Parabellum is very high pressure, so if you don't do something to slow the removal of the cartridge from the chamber the case is liable to rupture, or at best spit hot gases at the shooter. You can add more mass to the slide, and use a heavier spring, but the weapon would become incredibly heavy. Alternatively, the most common solution is to mechanically lock the barrel to the slide such that they recoil together for a short while, then they separate. This won't allow for a tip up barrel design, since it would be very difficult to make a sliding barrel tip, but also more importantly by the time the barrel and slide separated there probably wouldn't be enough backwards pressure to reliably push the cartridge out without an extractor. That leaves the final option, a delayed blowback design.
With delayed blowback, you use either a mechanical disadvantage (incredibly rare, although Mauser did experiment with the concept prior to WWI) or expanding gas from the cartridge firing to slow the rearward acceleration of the slide. This would allow for a tipping barrel, since the barrel could be fixed to the frame, but would likely still run into the second problem of reliable extraction. It would have to be tuned such that it slowed the slide just enough, but not so much that it didn't have enough internal pressure for the cartridge to get pushed out of the chamber. This would probably be very ammunition dependent, if you could get it working at all.
Therefore, you actually could make a 9mm Parabellum with a tip up barrel, but it would likely need to utilize a gas-delayed blowback design, and a complicated extractor design that would cam out of position when you tipped the barrel, and then later cam back into position when you locked the barrel downward. This camming action would need to provide a sufficient mechanical advantage so it wouldn't be too hard to close the barrel. While theoretically possible, this would be expensive. Putting any new gun into production is already an expensive proposition, and inherently risky, as you're never really sure how the market will react to it. As a result, I very much doubt we'll ever see such a pistol produced
They're able to do this in smaller chamberings because the barrel is fixed to the frame, so it's easy to simply add a pivot at the nose. This does come at a cost, the guns have no extractors, because there would be no cheap and easy way to design an extractor that would hook over the rim after you'd loaded the chamber directly.
With a chambering like 9mm Parabellum, you theoretically can have a fixed barrel by using something like a gas or mechanically delayed blowback design, but this may not work reliably because of the lack of an extractor.
Basically, 9mm Parabellum is very high pressure, so if you don't do something to slow the removal of the cartridge from the chamber the case is liable to rupture, or at best spit hot gases at the shooter. You can add more mass to the slide, and use a heavier spring, but the weapon would become incredibly heavy. Alternatively, the most common solution is to mechanically lock the barrel to the slide such that they recoil together for a short while, then they separate. This won't allow for a tip up barrel design, since it would be very difficult to make a sliding barrel tip, but also more importantly by the time the barrel and slide separated there probably wouldn't be enough backwards pressure to reliably push the cartridge out without an extractor. That leaves the final option, a delayed blowback design.
With delayed blowback, you use either a mechanical disadvantage (incredibly rare, although Mauser did experiment with the concept prior to WWI) or expanding gas from the cartridge firing to slow the rearward acceleration of the slide. This would allow for a tipping barrel, since the barrel could be fixed to the frame, but would likely still run into the second problem of reliable extraction. It would have to be tuned such that it slowed the slide just enough, but not so much that it didn't have enough internal pressure for the cartridge to get pushed out of the chamber. This would probably be very ammunition dependent, if you could get it working at all.
Therefore, you actually could make a 9mm Parabellum with a tip up barrel, but it would likely need to utilize a gas-delayed blowback design, and a complicated extractor design that would cam out of position when you tipped the barrel, and then later cam back into position when you locked the barrel downward. This camming action would need to provide a sufficient mechanical advantage so it wouldn't be too hard to close the barrel. While theoretically possible, this would be expensive. Putting any new gun into production is already an expensive proposition, and inherently risky, as you're never really sure how the market will react to it. As a result, I very much doubt we'll ever see such a pistol produced
Last edited:
High point?
Almost a gun.
Almost a gun.
bulletslap
Member
The Astra 600/43 is a blowback 9mm Parabellum. It is reliable, accurate, and is heavy in weight and springs.
Similar threads
