Berry's 240 gr. SWC .44 spl. and Unique?

[Realzebub45]

Last week or 2, I tried some loads with the Berry's 240 gr. SWC's. I used other powders, but it was the Unique I wanted to ask about.

All loads were to 1.485" OAL, medium Roll Crimp, CCI 300 Primers (HS-6 was WLP). Projectile length on these seems to be @ .730". Case length was @ 1.150". I used 7.1 gr. of the Unique. All rounds fired through 24-6 3" 44 spl. with the original small magna grips.

The recoil on this load seemed pretty stout. So much so I was surprised. I wondered if I would want to even try this fabled Keith load of 7.5 gr.??? It was not fun, but then I began to wonder if it might be the grips, which are a little small for me and seemed to impart the recoil pulse in exactly the wrong spot at the base of my thumb.

I bought some big N frame target grips (I think target) at the last show, and now those are on the gun. will be trying that next.

Please tell me if this load is not within reason, and if so, do I have a lot of room to go at the top end? Thanks.

 

[Birddog2]

The new grips should help.
I have used much stouter loads thru my 624 4"
My usual load is the standard 7.5 gr of Unique with std primers.

 

[tappedandtagged]

I don't have a 44 spl, but out of my 44 mag (629) I have ran up to 10 in it with both cast and jacketed without excessive recoil. 7.5 grains was my plinking load and is very pleasant with my N frame factory grips and my Ahrend wood grips.

But... My manual does top out at 6.5 with a 240 in bith cast and jacketed. I also believe that Elmer Kieth used heftier Ruger revolvers and blew the top strap off a few of them in the process.

No use in trying to make a special a magnum as you will soon have niether. I would back off to 6.5 grains (Lyman's max listed) and stick with that.

Edit to add: Alliant lists a max of 7.6 with the 240 Speer Gold Dot. Maybe you do have a bit of room yet. I would think that the Berry's would produce less pressures than the jacketed Gold Dot of the same weight.

 

[lebomm]

Your load is below the "Skeeter Skelton" load of 7.5 Unique/250gr. SWC, but you're right about the little RB being less than adequate for the .44. You might also try a T-grip in the RB or maybe a pair of "round-to-square" galoshes. I'm pretty sure you won't like Elmer Keith's 17.0gr 2400/250 SWC with that little RB.

 

[Rule3]

I dislike shooting with wood grips unless they are the bigger combat grips with finger grooves. I take the wood ones off and put Pachs on my revolvers. World of difference.

The Skeeter Load is not bad at all with some nice Goodyears.

 

[Realzebub45]

My 24-6 is a 44 spl. only and is a square butt. It is one of those newer production models with the IL that they made along with the 29 and 25's. It actually has the full length cylinder like the 44 mag version but no, you can NOT insert 44 mags in it.

I believe this may have been a cost cutting measure. Probably same heat treat as the 44 mag cylinder, but heck no, I am NOT trying to get to 44 mag-esque levels.

I had a 629 V-Comp, and if I want one, I will buy a 44 mag. I just thought that the skeeter load would have been considerably less "Lively" than some of those Cor-Bon 300+ hard cast loads I used to have and shoot.

The issue seems to be that my natural grip on the small Stock grips wants to go too high, and all the recoil seems to go into an M&M sized spot on the lower thumb. So somehow it ends up being more painful than the full blown magnums were that I remember.

I will see with the new grips. I was hoping I did not inadvertently load something too hot or too short and create a pressure issue. There were no signs of over pressure though on any cases or primers.

 

[cochise]

I would agree with others saying 6.5 grns is max for me. I load 5.8 grns for 240 grn lead swc and for the 200 grn Speer G D 6.5 grns. I am old and don't hot rod the .44 spcl.

 

[Realzebub45]

I think I'm going to shoot the last few cylinder fulls with the new grips, and then maybe start loading down to my ideal if necessary.

I just didn't want you to think I was soft.

Thanks.

 

[cp1969]

You will get the snot beat out of your hand if you use a two-handed death grip on a large caliber handgun and try to keep the muzzle from rising.

Believe it or not, shooting the gun with one hand produces less felt recoil. If you try shooting it from the old laying down position that Elmer used for long range shots, you can only grab the gun with one hand but you get to steady the gun and hand against your right leg. The gun will recoil up and away from your leg; you can't hold it down. But since the gun moves a larger distance that way, you are spreading the recoil energy out over a longer distance, thus lessening the felt recoil.

FWIW, I think most of Elmer's .44 Special load development was done long before the Ruger Blackhawk was invented, like in the 1920s and 30s. He used S&W and Colt revolvers.

Also, what I just repeated about recoil came from him but I can attest that it works. He figured it out long before I was born. His book Sixguns is well worth reading.

Added: It's OK to use two hands, but don't grip tightly with the off hand. Just support your gun hand. When the gun fires, your hands will separate with the gun hand rising with the gun. You'll find you can tolerate a lot of recoil this way.

 

[Krogen]

I have three 24-3s. A 3", 4" and 6 1/2". I've loaded each of them up to the Skeeter load, but I don't see a real need. Even with full size target grips, the recoil is pretty stout. So, I shoot 6.5 gr of Unique with 240 gr Laser Cast bullets and am quite happy. As cliche as it's become, I shoot a 44 Mag if I think I need the power. IMHO, the 24 does kick more with equivalent loads than a 29. My hunch is the tapered barrel and perhaps the shorter cylinder lead to more muzzle flip from the 24 than the 29. Besides, this "justifies" my "need" for 24s >and< 29s!

 

[blujax01]

I don't have any first-hand knowledge so take this for what it's worth...
The Alliant web site recipes for 44 Special shows the max load for Unique using 240 grain LSWC to be 6.3 grains.

It also has a load titled "Keith" using 250 grain cast bullets and Unique at 6.9 grains max.

It would appear that you're already over maximum in either case?

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

 

[cp1969]

As far as I know, all loading manuals restrict their top loadings for the .44 Special to the SAAMI spec, which is incredibly low. The Lyman #49 shows nothing higher than 14,000 CUP. For comparison, the .45 ACP, in which the case isn't even fully supported in a 1911, is around 18,000 CUP. The reason for the .44 Special being so low was that there were apparently lots of low-quality, flimsy-built revolvers being made back when the cartridge was introduced.

Elmer Keith recognized the potential this cartridge had when used in a good gun, such as the S&W and Colt Single Action and began experimenting with it to obtain higher velocities. Obviously, he found there was much more velocity to be had, safely. His loads and those of many other writers/experimenters are considerably higher than the top loads of the manuals who comply with the SAAMI pressure limits for their cartridges, but that does not make them unsafe in modern firearms.

I don't have a .44 Special, but if I did, I would not be the least bit afraid to use the EK or Skeeter Skelton loads. In fact, I would probably not even work up to them, as I have a .44 Mag and an 8.0 gr Unique over 240 LSWC is a 900-950 fps load in my guns. In a Redhawk, it's about like shooting .38s in a .357. I can't imagine that that load would be unsafe in any .44 Special made today.

 

[Rule3]

I don't have any first-hand knowledge so take this for what it's worth...
The Alliant web site recipes for 44 Special shows the max load for Unique using 240 grain LSWC to be 6.3 grains.

It also has a load titled "Keith" using 250 grain cast bullets and Unique at 6.9 grains max.

It would appear that you're already over maximum in either case?

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

Yes, even the Lyman cast has a 245 gr bullet with a max of 6.9 gr Unique.

So in the interest of safety and disclaimers, it is best to follow the manual and powder recommendations

As with Magnum loads there is usually no need to beat yourself and gun up using maximum loads.

Where is Snapping Twig, he loves those Skeeters

 

[Realzebub45]

But everyone knows the Internet does not lie.

I had to extrapolate but figured if it was commonly accepted that people have been loading 240 gr. with 7.5 of Unique for some time, I figured I was safe with 7.1.

I wish all the bullet companies would publish bullet specific load data. Maybe I will pick up the Lyman Cast book. Anyway, I'm going to try 6.5 and maybe increase if things work out. The 24-6 I'm sure is a capable modern gun, but I don't want to play Elmer and Indians.

 

[Rule3]

But everyone knows the Internet does not lie.

I had to extrapolate but figured if it was commonly accepted that people have been loading 240 gr. with 7.5 of Unique for some time, I figured I was safe with 7.1.

I wish all the bullet companies would publish bullet specific load data. Maybe I will pick up the Lyman Cast book. Anyway, I'm going to try 6.5 and maybe increase if things work out. The 24-6 I'm sure is a capable modern gun, but I don't want to play Elmer and Indians.

I have the Lyman Cast Manual, the 6.9 is the max for the heavy bullets, There is no real reason to use the 7.5 gr. I have and it's not a big deal. I see no reason to try and make the special a magnum.
Heck, I use that load in a 45 Colt.

 

[cp1969]

As I explained above, the people who publish the manuals are in a CYA mode. Their "MAXIMUM" load for the .44 Special is 14,000 CUP which in no way reflects the danger zone for modern firearms. That's the SAAMI spec to keep someone from blowing up a 100 year old pot-metal revolver. You could double that and still be nowhere close. In fact, Elmer had his load pressure tested and it came in at something over 40,000 psi and we never heard of him damaging a .44 Special gun.

 

[PattonTime]

I have not been using Unique much anymore merely because of metering issues.
I have switched to more of the Accurate line of powders because they meter so well.
The 44 Special is I believe one of the most pleasant cartridges to shoot in a revolver. If I am shooting a three inch gun like my 24-3 or a 624 3" I use Accurate #2 or Bullseye or 231, something quite fast burning and at the top of the loading charts or a bit above, I am of the opinion that one could go much higher, but I also own lots of 44 magnums so I see no reason to push my wonderful Special's much.
I only try to find a load where pressure is high enough to burn clean and that is that.
I will use a load of Accurate # 5 which is more like Unique when shooting my 5" or 6.5 inch guns.
It is fun to experiment !!!