Best .357 for discreet carry...

[rwsmith]

I agree with the too light......

I think the 'j' frames are just right for .38 +P. If I had a 'j' frame .357 I wouldn't use full power loads. I concocted some low end .357s in my 686 HD gun that are better than any +Ps.

Even in the all steel mod 36 I find the most powerful +Ps to be rough on my hands. I'm not concerned about recoil in a defense situation, but practice.....yowie.

 

[regalsc]

The best 357 for carry for me is the only one I carry my 66-4 3". My 686 no dash 6" is not as concealable.

 

[wlewisiii]

I have a hammer bobbed DAO Model 13-3 4". I'm tall and fat so concealing it really isn't very difficult.

 

[old pipefitter]

I like the J frames. 340M&P, 60-15 Pro-series, 640-1 Pro, haven't shot the 640 pro yet but it feels great in my hands. And the other two shoot pretty good if your not shooting real hot .357's. I have to research a holster for it. maybe a cross draw would work good for driving

 

[shouldazagged]

I looked up masochism in the dictionary. There was a picture of a guy shooting a .357 Magnum J-frame.

 

[reppans]

22 oz 649 is good for me and deep concealment. Yeah regular .357s are rough, but +Ps feels like range ammo - I got to find some Speer .357 Short Barrel Ammo to try out, which I hear is a nice in-between round.

 

[Have gun-will travel]

I carry a 340 PD with 125 gr JHP. I don't worry about the recoil. All I am concerned with is that I hit the threat and that he stops. I generally shoot about 10 to 20 rounds at each range session. It is my back up when I am in uniform.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

I posted a likeness to this on another thread, but it fits here as well.

I pulled out all my .38 and .357 this evening and went pie plate hunting with my 640-1 Pro. This is the first time I've run everything in the safe through the 640. I stapled the plates to a board, nailed the board to a tree about chest high, set my bench +/- 25' away, and went through--two handed--in this order.

Remington .38, 130gr, metal clad -- what a nice round to shoot, my best group in the middle of the plate (point of aim)

Speer .38 +P, 135gr SBHP -- first one was low and away (me, I'm sure), the rest were center and a bit low

Speer Lawman .38 +P, 158gr TMJ -- second best group, center low

Remington Golden Saber .357, 125gr, Brass JHP -- nicest of the magnum rounds to shoot and a nice group a bit low

Barnes TAC-XPD .357, 125gr, TAC-XP HP, lead-free -- first one got away low, then 4 on the plate but very low, slightly left (after shooting the rest of the types I went back to this one, raised the nose slightly and put three groups of 5 pretty rapid fire near the center of the plate -- absolutely no problem with recovery time)

Federal .357, 158gr Hydra-Shok JHP -- low, center (I shot two more groups of 5 with similar results)

Winchester .357, 158gr, JHP -- same as the Federal

I got my 640 earlier this month. I put Karl Nills stocks on it (stolen from my M&P 340), and they make it feel like a K-frame. No problems with recoil or "the next shot" with any of this ammo.

I've had 19 and 66 2½" guns, and I like this 640 Pro better.

 

[DD357]

2.5" 19/66 or 3" 65/13

 

[AlHunt]

Excuse me a second, while I head off the reservation again ...

I know OP didn't start out talking about carry and SD, but the thread drifted that way.

If a person wants .357 Mag performance in a more manageable form, the .357 Sig was designed expressly for that purpose.

One example is the Glock 33. To me the recoil is more manageable than my model 38 with 38 SPL rounds because the recoil comes straight back and gets absorbed into the slide movement. The model 38, however much I love it, is much harder on the wrists because all the recoil is rotating the firearm up and back.

The model 38 weighs in at 15 oz empty, the Glock 33 is 22 oz.

I know, I've committed about 6 kinds of heresy here. But consider the difference 9 or 10 rounds of genuine 357 mag performance makes when the excrement hits the fan.

 

[BAM-BAM]

For a carry .357 I started with a 2 1/2 inch 19 moved to a 66 when I could get one...... transitioned to a 3 inch 65 ( which I had magna-ported) in about 1986/7 and then to a 3 inch 66-3 in 88/89.......

So either a 3 inch 65 ( non-ported) or 66 is my preference.... for the longer extractor rod. Though I do have 2 1/2 inch 19-4/66-?s in the safe.

I've been carry them all in either a Bianchi Pistol Pocket and later Milt Sparks Summer Special since the beginning....... so the extra 1/2 inch of barrel makes no noticeable difference in concealed carry.

My only .357 J-frame is a 3 inch 60-10 my "Kit Gun" ... think micro-686 which is rarely stoked with magnums..... mostly +P38s.

 

[drummer007]

I have posted this before, but it is still true. I am a licensed civilian. Sold my J Frame .357 and I have been carrying a 66-4 2.5" every day for the last 4 years. Plus a speedloader in my front pocket. The 158 grain Remington SJHP ammo is old school, but still works very good. The clipdraw makes it as easy to slip over the waste band of my trousers as putting a wallet in my back pocket. To finish it off, I wear a light pullover shirt or sweater outside the waistband.

 

[BB57]

A few thoughts...

1. It's true that the .357 Magnum isn't very efficient in a 2 1/8" to 2.5" barrel. But...

That's aggravated by a tendency to load the .357 magnum with large changes of slow burning powder - loads that produce maximum velocity in long barrel revolvers.

Those large 20 or so grain loads also aggravate the problem with recoil, as while the bullet velocity will be disappointing, the extra 10-11 grains of powder retains it's mass in gaseous form and that gas leaving the muzzle at 2-3 times the muzzle velocity of the bullet has the effect of increasing the recoil about the same as shooting a bullet that is about 25-30 grains heavier.

The popular gun rag and internet wisdom is that those slow burning powders produce the most velocity even in a short barrel. However, I've been chronographing my hand loads for over 20 years and I found early on that a maximum load of a medium burning powder like Unique will produce more velocity in a 2" to 3" barrel than a slower burning powder.

None the less, no one believes that when you point it out to them as they've heard the slow powder BS so long it's become an inviolate fact. Sadly, we've become a society of people who prefer authoritarianism rather than actual experience and experimental data.

Personally, my preferred .357 self defense load is a 125 gr XTP on top of 8.5 or 9.0 grains of Unique. The Hornady second edition had a max of 9.4 grains but that edition is known for fairly warm data and cases start to stick at 8.5 to 9.0 gr depending the the revolver, and I prefer the cases drop free cleanly, in a self defense revolver, particularly if it's 2.125" S&W due to the short ejector rod.

In a 3" revolver I get an average velocity of 1,296 fps with 9.0 grains and 1,243 fps with 8.5 grains. That compares with a velocity of 1,150 fps with a max charge of Win 296.

For short 1 7/8 to 2 1/8" Model 36s and 60s I prefer a +P load of 7.5 gr of 800x under the same 125 gr bullet. It gives an average velocity of 929 fps in my 1 7/8" Model 36, 951 fps in my 2 1/8" Model 60 and 1,030 fps in my 3" Model 60.

In that regard, the 8.5 grs of Unique gives me another 213 fps of velocity over a .38 +P load in the same revolver.

2. Grips, a steel frame and a 3" barrel all help tame .357 Mag recoil in a snub nose.

I've found that a set of Hogue Monoblock grips makes a Model 60 with the above mentioned .357 Mag (125 gr at 1250-1300 fps) very tolerable when shot in a steel frame Model 60. The extra weight of a 3" barrel helps.

Extra weight helps as well. The extra 5 oz in a 3" SP101 or the extra 7 oz in a 3" Model 13 or a 2 3/4" Speed Six is very noticeable on the range, particularly if you're shooting 100 or so rounds.

The extra 7/8" of barrel isn't noticeable at all in IWB carry, but it does make the .357 Mag much more effective.

I do notice the extra weight of the 3" SP101 compared to the 3": Model 60, when carrying it, but to be fair it's not offensively heavy and that extra weight also makes it much more effective to shoot.

That said, unless I'm carrying the revolver under a tucked shirt, my preference is to carry a 3" Model 13 as it's a great revolver to shoot, it offers six rounds rather than five, and it's still readily concealable and comfortable to carry in a good IWB holster with a well made belt.

But on days when I need a smaller profile revolver the J-frame works just fine.

3. A J-frame is a bit of an "experts" gun that rewards good training and ample practice.

My primary hesitation regarding carrying a J-Magnum revolver with .357 Mag loads is that the J-Magnum frame .357s are not really made for a steady diet of .357 Magnum.

Consequently, practicing enough to be truly effective with it is problematic without wearing the revolver out very quickly. I tend to split the difference and practice with the heavier constructed SP101 and then carry the Model 60 when I need a smaller revolver. The two are close enough that the SP101 practice generalizes nicely to the Model 60.

 

[KalamazooKid]

I looked up masochism in the dictionary. There was a picture of a guy shooting a .357 Magnum J-frame.

That's funny![emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jim PHL]

When I first got my carry permit many years ago the first carry gun I bought was a 640-1 when S&W first started making the J-magnums. I believed at the time it was an excellent combination of size/weight/power. (Still do, actually.). I practiced mostly with .38's but always a couple cylinders of magnums also. I carried magnums in it. My brother in law if I recall correctly shot less than a full cylinder of magnums. My father shot a couple cylinders of .38's, didn't like it and never pulled the trigger on a magnum round. I used to giggle touching-off magnums due to the feeling of sheer power in such a small package. Yes it hurt. It was a good hurt, the way a roller coaster is a good scary.

At some point I decided I wanted or needed an auto for carry and at the time, due to finances, the 640 had to go to afford something new. Based on where I am in my "collection" I don't know that I'd buy a new one today but it's still at or near the top of my list of guns I've sold/traded that I wish I still had.

Side note: the "J-Magnums" are slightly larger and obviously heavier than, for example, a 642/637, etc. Fine for dropping into a pocket for a quick trip to the store but, for me, a little much for "all-day" pocket carry.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

BB57 -- thanks for that thorough post.

I'm not a reloader, but posts like yours and a couple of penny-wise friends are making it more likely that I'll see the light soon.

For now, can you translate your "... preferred .357 self defense load... a 125 gr XTP on top of 8.5 or 9.0 grains of Unique." into comparable off-the-shelf ammo?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[BB57]

BB57 -- thanks for that thorough post.

I'm not a reloader, but posts like yours and a couple of penny-wise friends are making it more likely that I'll see the light soon.

For now, can you translate your "... preferred .357 self defense load... a 125 gr XTP on top of 8.5 or 9.0 grains of Unique." into comparable off-the-shelf ammo?

Thanks,

Bob

Sorry, I can't recommend anything specific. Ideally, you'll want something that is intended for use in a short 2-3" barrel.

Unfortunately, what you'll usually find are low recoil loads designed for small revolvers, and that's not the same thing.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Sorry, I can't recommend anything specific. Ideally, you'll want something that is intended for use in a short 2-3" barrel.

Unfortunately, what you'll usually find are low recoil loads designed for small revolvers, and that's not the same thing.

Thank you.

My reloader pals don't pay attention to factory stuff, but I thought maybe....

The Barnes TAC-XPD .357, 125gr, TAC-XP HP, lead-free I tried out yesterday might live in the right neighborhood. Barnes claims 1,200 fps from a 2". It punches above its weight, for sure but nothing embarrassing, and my grips do a great job of mitigating any sting.

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[18DAI]

Agreed. The 2.5 inch pre lock 66 is everything you need in a revolver and nothing you dont.

If it didn't exist, the pre lock pre MIM 640-1 is a nice 2nd choice. As is the Ruger SP101. Regards 18DAI

 

[Longhorn1986]

I have carried either Cor-Bon 125 gr .357 (previously) or Barnes Vor-Tx 140 gr .357 (now) in my Model 60 since I bought it in 1997. My mix of target ammo has been 90% .357/ 10% .38. I have never had an issue with the revolver and the recoil, to me, has never been "vicious", "unmanageable" or anything else but a little stout. I do understand that each individual has their own sensitivity to recoil, but I have found that, with practice, one gets inured to even heavy recoil. Yes, if I haven't shot my 60 in awhile, the first couple of rounds seem a bit strong, but usually, by the first cylinder or two, it's like shaking hands with an old friend.

Of course, your mileage may vary! Good luck with whatever you decide!