Best general purpose optic style?

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iron6

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I have the Mp sport with the folding mbus rear sight and I like it for target shooting but If the lights anything less than noon or If the target is black shooting past 75 yards at anything smaller than man sized is about impossible, part of my justification for buying the ar was it would be my coyote hunting gun. I'm looking at two options, one is buying quick detachment high quality rings and about a 100$ scope and the other option I am considering is buying a primary arms red dot and 6x magnifier and removing the magnifier when not varmit hunting.


What do you optic experts suggest?

I simply don't have 400-5000 to spend on a aimpoint/acog/ magicalterroristslayingnightvisionscopeofdeath

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It really depends on how you are going to be using the rifle. I use a red dot on mine for hog hunting, but I keep my shots in the 50 yd or so range most of the time, so magnification is not an issue. The red dot allows for fast acquisition on a running hog.

If you are going to be shooting at longer distances and require magnification, I would go with a scope.
 
Distances will be a maximum of of 300 yards I will be hunting off a tree stand with about 300 yards of field. Hopefully I can get them closer but generally my range will be 100-250 yards with the occasional 300 yard shot but never any more than that

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Then you should go with a scope. A red dot is made for fast target acquisition, at fairly close ranges where a hit is a hit. For your application, you are looking at precise bullet placement at over 100 yards.
 
Maybe a scope with an illuminated reticule? That then begs the question: What type of reticule do you want to use?
 
That Leopold is within my price range. I'm leaning towards an illuminated reticle. I am not a scope expert I just what to be able to put a bullet in a coyotes chest in semi low light areas

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My vote goes to a decent 1-4x. I had Leupold whip this one up for me:
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recommendations.....1-4x24 or 3-9x40. Trijicon,vortex,leupold for glass.Bobro,LaRue,ADM for mount. You get what you pay for in optics.Save up and get what you WANT not what you can afford this minute.A $100 really limits your choices. I stay away from magnifiers personally due to added weight and bulk.Go to your local shop and take a look. There's no better way of determining what's right for you.
 
Cheapest trijicon I could find was 900$... I think I'd stick with iron sights for that money, I can spend a combined maximum of about 300$ so I can do a bit more than 100$ but the super scopes are just not worth the money to me. I'll be shooting coyotes at estimated 200-300 yards not trying to get 2 inch groupings at 600

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Simple recommendations,that's all. Never said you have to get a trijicon.If that's all you got out of my post then i'm done here.
 
iron6 said:
Distances will be a maximum of of 300 yards I will be hunting off a tree stand with about 300 yards of field. Hopefully I can get them closer but generally my range will be 100-250 yards with the occasional 300 yard shot but never any more than that

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Nikon 4x12 runs about $225 out the door. Just put them on my sons' rifles. Very nice scopes. I recommend the 12x because you are saying 300yds on a small dog, or bobcat as a target. Were it deer and pigs, I would have said 3x9.
 
I'll second the 1-4/1-5 scope. Or, given your projected use, maybe a fixed 4x scope with a decently large objective. Heavy cross hairs will help out on dim light use if illumination is out of your cost range.

In dim light, the higher power scopes won't give you a usable image. You'll end up dialed down to 3-4 X, so why buy magnification you don't need?
 
I have a 8-24 that I use for loadwork. The rest of the time all my rifles have low power variables with the largest being 2-7x32. Most have 1.5-5 or 1-4.
 
red dragon said:
Simple recommendations,that's all. Never said you have to get a trijicon.If that's all you got out of my post then i'm done here.
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I apologize if I came off a little aggressive, I'm still in college so the upper grand level scopes are about as viable and responsible to buy as a ferrari for the average Joe

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I just got a nice Bushnell 3-9x40 for about $150. It is a 223 specific model with bullet drop reticle Marked out to 500 yards and parallax focus.

It isn't illuminated, but it is a nice bright optic for the price. My first time shooting at 250 yards was all hits on a gong that was roughly the size of a coyote kill zone.
 
I recently searched for a scope in the < $200 range for a bolt action rifle firing a low recoil round. I bought a Redfield 3x9. It was about $170 IIRC. I found the glass was very clear for the price range. I'm also a SLR camera collector so glass clarity is important to me. Yes, you get what you pay for, but there is also the law of diminishing returns. $1000 glass will be better than $300 glass, but by how much? And can your eye tell the difference?

And with a low recoil round like the 5.56/.223 the Redfield (now owned by Leupold) or a comparable Nikon will stand up to the vibration.
 
You might have a hard time finding an illuminated reticle scope and a quality mount for $300. The Bushnell 3x9x40 firefly looks like it runs between $250 to $275. Add in another $100 for a mount like the Burris PEPR.

If you go without an illuminated reticle, you can get a lower end Leupold 3x9x40, or nikon. Bushnell would also have several offerings within your price range.
 
WR Moore said:
I'll second the 1-4/1-5 scope. Or, given your projected use, maybe a fixed 4x scope with a decently large objective. Heavy cross hairs will help out on dim light use if illumination is out of your cost range.

In dim light, the higher power scopes won't give you a usable image. You'll end up dialed down to 3-4 X, so why buy magnification you don't need?
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With decent glass, you can shoot out to surprising distances in the dark, with only moonlight as illumination.
A BDX reticle helps this a lot; the larger reticle edges point inward to an 'open' center at night, and when that is centered on your animal, you are going to hit it.
I use the highest magnification I can at night, to get the best picture on what I am shooting at. I have taken hogs on depredation hunts out to 200+yds at night. While this is rare, shots if 75yds with no spotlights are not uncommon at all. I have easily taken 'yotes out to 120-140yds without spotlights at night here in the desert.

Illuminated reticles are NOT the greatest thing ever; if you have decent eyesight, you will fare much better without it.
Illumination levels need to be so low as to be nearly imperceptible to be effective. A bright illumination will blind the view in the scope. I have seen scarce few optics with light resolution LOW enough to work properly. All the optics I have ever used with low enough light were not economical scopes in any manner. The closest is an Eotech. These tend to go low enough that they are usable in the real world at night.

If you are hunting...... go with MORE magnification for 200yd. shooting. A 1-4 does not give enough resolution for small game at those distances unless the shot picture is very clear. You will find that coyotes do not just sit still waiting to get bullets thrown at them. It's not like shooting paper targets......
 
I second the Nikon recommendation. In my humble opinion, they make the best scope under $250, and they make some nice AR specific models. If you're looking to shoot coyotes at 200+ yards, you're really going to want an optic that gets you at least 9x, maybe even 12x. I personally wouldn't buy a cheap scope with an illuminated reticule, but that's just me - the quality difference between cheap light-up scopes and expensive ones is HUGE, and I wouldn't buy one at all if I couldn't afford a good one (which I can't). Good glass will transmit enough light for you to shoot in pretty dark conditions, and if it's too dark to shoot with a plain reticule, it's probably too dark to be shooting it at all.
The Amazon.com: Nikon P-223 3-9x40 Mate BDC 600: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Pu%2B51eKmL.@@AMEPARAM@@41Pu%2B51eKmL are both great value for money and have BDC reticles, with high-transparency glass. For maximum versatility on a limited budget, I'd go with the 3-9x40 (which is almost the same scope I have on my Remington 700 - I have the ProStaff, not the P233).
 
Gatorade said:
I second the Nikon recommendation. In my humble opinion, they make the best scope under $250, and they make some nice AR specific models. If you're looking to shoot coyotes at 200+ yards, you're really going to want an optic that gets you at least 9x, maybe even 12x. I personally wouldn't buy a cheap scope with an illuminated reticule, but that's just me - the quality difference between cheap light-up scopes and expensive ones is HUGE, and I wouldn't buy one at all if I couldn't afford a good one (which I can't). Good glass will transmit enough light for you to shoot in pretty dark conditions, and if it's too dark to shoot with a plain reticule, it's probably too dark to be shooting it at all.
The Nikon P223 3-9x40 or 4-12x40 are both great value for money and have BDC reticles, with high-transparency glass. For maximum versatility on a limited budget, I'd go with the 3-9x40 (which is almost the same scope I have on my Remington 700 - I have the ProStaff, not the P233).
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I just did the comparison between the nikon and Bushnell 3-9 AR specific scopes. I went with the Bushnell. It has a slightly closer eye relief and, in my opinion, slightly brighter and clearer. I found it a few bucks cheaper for a nicer optic.

That said, for the money the nikon is nice too.

I leave that guy at 3x power and have the 45 degree sights for anything that's closer than a 3x scope can handle. But, my perps are usually raccoons, not people. The 45 degree sights are so easy to access with a simple roll of the rifle counterclockwise. It takes some practice to roll far enough to achieve the proper sight picture right away. I find that if I think about getting my elbow up and out, it snaps into place pretty quickly.

It also works best on a gas block with a rail on top rather than a front sight.

Disclaimer: I'm fairly new to ARs, but not to shooting. Your mileage may vary.
 
I have had great results with my Burris AR 332. It has a black reticle as well as a Red and Green so you can change depending on background and it has various brightness levels. The black works without the need of a battery so you always have something should your battery die. It is 3x and the clarity is very good. With the BDC, you get a more precise point of impact out to 300-400 yards which as far as I have shot. Great optic and fits in you price range. Burris now has one with 5x magnification with same features. One other thing to consider is over all length and the AR 332 fits very nicely on a flat top receiver with out over hang which you get with some other optics.
 
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I don't have a lot of money to spend on this stuff either so I picked up up a Burris 1-4x TAC-30 with German #4 reticle (much like the Leupold reticle pictured in post #8) and illuminated center dot, and mounted it up to my AR with a Burris PEPR QD mount. I spent $275 on everything and it has turned out to be a great do-all setup.

Sorry for the low quality but this is the best picture I have:

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Several years ago I bought a Center Point scope from Walmart for a .22 that I had bought to play with and while it is a very cheap scope, I think about $70, I was very impressed with it and when I bought the AR that I presently have I mounted it with a quick removable mount and it has done very well and held its zero well, I switch out between this and my Eotech.
 
For a general purpose optic... I prefer 1x red dot

I shoot my AR offhand. No need for a fancy BDC reticle. I zero at 50 yards and am only around an inch high at 100yds and back to to zero around 200yds. I can't hold the rifle better than that. I don't like to strap on a hefty pound or more magnified optic plus a one piece mount. No need to fool around with eye relief and field of view limitations. Have used cheapo Primary Arms MicroDot that works just fine. Recently got an Aimpoint H1 2moa. Works good too.
 
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I would go to Primary Arms and get one of their in-house optics. PA usually has some sort of deal where the 3x magnifier is included in some type of set up. So, I think you'll find what you're looking and at a very reasonable rate. And getting a good optic set up. Just to let you know. I recently had to return my PA optic after 9 months of great usage. It seemed the circuits or wire was loose, due to the amount of shooting I do. And it's rapid fire to boot. I had no problems when returning it. The customer service was awesome. Nick the customer service/sales rep. apologized and issued me a Return Merchandise number. He said write the number on the box. PA got the returned optic and sent me out a brand new one that day. A letter from PA again apologized for any inconvenience. Was only 4 days without an optic. And they upgrade my optic to the newer generation. Threw in some extra batteries and gave me a $20 gift certificate to their site. What happened to my optic can happen to the $500 or more too. My other PA optics I have had for years and they're still going strong. I tell people all the time that PA is an excellent alternative or if you want a good solid optic that won't break your bank. As well as, PA has other stuff on their site and all items at a great price point too. Also, another alternative is the newer Lucid Optic which goes for $250 or a bit less and can be found at Optics Planet web site. Hope this helps you out. If you got an optic already. Then wish you the best. And NO I don't work for PA. Just think their site is great. The have awesome customer service and items if bought before 3:30P CT will be at your residence in just 2 days. And their prices are usually lesser than their competitors. SO what's not to like at PA.
 
iron6, one more piece of advice...

I'm not sure how old you are or the condition of your vision. My eyes are changing again as I near 40. The change in vision combined with my astigmatism caused me to perceive a 3MOA LED dot to be fuzzy with a slight starburst. I switched to a holographic and I'm good to go, at least for a while.

Before buying a dot optic, go to a local store and look through a few. Get a feel for how your eye perceives the dot. Check your perception of the different intensity levels, dot colors, and dot sizes.
 
Iron6 look at a Redfield Revolution 4-12x40mm. model # 67115, Matte Accu-range. around 200.00 lifetime warranty. a brand of Leupold out of Oregon.and I do believe the Revolution is made there too, not sure. by the way waiting to pick up my M&P 15or Feb 2 2014 (10 day wait period ) hope this helps
 
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