Best powders for M1A SOCOM

Prevailing opinion seems to be that the faster powders work better in the SOCOMs. To me much of this is speculation and I have not seen anybody with any degree of technical expertise clear the air once and for all. Some (like me) have cycling problems with these guns while others don't. I am at a bit of a disadvantage here because I have never owned or shot a full size M1A and I do not have or use any factory loaded or surplus ammo.

I have never shot bullets heavier than 165 grs. through this gun and my powder charges have never exceeded maximum in any of the newer loading manuals. I do not see how it's possible that I could have a bent op rod unless it came from the factory that way. The M14 forum has some excellent pieces written by Gus Fisher, who has a great deal of expertise with these rifles. I will re-check some of his postings.

The matter of cleanliness is also puzzling to me. I bought this rifle the day after Christmas last year and the weather here in PA was very cold. My first cycling problems showed up very quickly in the frigid weather and I assumed it was because the heavy grease or lube that Springfield Armory used was causing the gun to run sluggish. I then disassembled the rifle, completely degreased it and then applied Militec-1 with a heat gun. It seemed to run well but then the cycling problems quickly reappeared. Another potential problem is that the gas plug does have a tendency to shoot loose. I don't know how loose it needs to be before the gun will start to cycle poorly. A quarter turn? Would that be all it takes? At this point I don't know.

At this point I will completely clean and lube the rifle and check the tightness of the gas plug after literally every shot. Considering that this is a proven battle rifle, I do not believe that cleanliness should be an issue, since I am certainly not running it dry or filthy.

Trying surplus ammo would probably be a good idea. There is always the possibility that the problem could be my ammo, but when I am using maximum published charge weights in carefully prepared ammo, I have to wonder. I will have to see what the next range session brings.

Dave Sinko
 
Sir, the old Jouster.com CSP boards are now being hosted at Milsurp.com. (Click the link.) Gus Fisher is there on the M1/M14 board--you might ask him directly. http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73

BTW, a loose gas cylinder plug will most definitely cause short cycling.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
The gun is now clean and properly lubed. The gas plug has been tightened and will be carefully monitored. As for the exact malfunctions, I've had a few instances where the gun will attempt to cycle but the bolt does not come back far enough to eject the fired case or even attempt to chamber the next round in the magazine. It then re-chambers the fired case. And I've had a few stovepipe type stoppages where I can see the fired case isn't being thwown clear of the action. I don't see these as extraction or ejection problems, but one of gas pressure. These happened with some heavier loads that were right around maximum with BL-C(2) and 110, 150 and 165 gr. bullets. I have been advised that my loads may be too hot for the gas system, so I will reduce my loads a few grains and start over.

The question of gas port size seems to be "common opinion" and I am not aware of any statement by Springfield Armory to the effect that it is different than the full size rifles.

I hope I can get to the bottom of this quickly. I really do like this rifle and am impressed by the fact that it feeds everything with complete reliability.

Dave Sinko
 
Worked for a State Agency that issued M-14's (semi only) to Officers if they requested one and would do the Qual course. There ARE a few things to keep in mind.

There is a proper way to clean and LUBE the M1A/M-14's. Not everyone took this to heart and had some problems. I'd research how to properly clean and lube.

Should you wish to reload for them, your reloads also require some special care. Not any old .308 Win reload will work to the optimum either. We had a few guys loading totally inappropriate powders at too high a pressure level and the result was a few cracked bolts.

Personally I think your problem is your trying to load too light a bullet...100 and 110 grain. I'd look into std 147 or 150 gr military FMJ's.

http://m14tfl.com/upload/

Thats the link to the Battle Rifles M-14 Forum. I would visit them and post your question there. I'd be VERY surprised if someone doesn't get you straightened out and quickly. A lot of experience on the site.

My M1A digests IMR-4895 loads with 147 gr FMJ slugs or 168 gr sierra Match BT's with ease. Just like it was designed to do.

FN in MT
 
If this problem is still happening. I would contact Springfield and talk to them. Their service is world class. They will fix it correctly. Yes shipping it back is a pain but it would be worth it.
 
I have come to the stark realization that my problems are due to improperly sized brass. I will need to get a small base sizing die for any of my loads to function properly. I did not realize how critical this is for proper extraction and ejection in a semiauto rifle. Shame on me!

I have learned a valuable lesson here...

Dave Sinko
 
My own results today from taking my M1A SOCOM II to the range with my own handloads. All loads were done with H-4895 starting low and working my way up. Strings were 5 rounds loaded in the magazine of the same powder charge.

Rounds were loaded to 2.745 COL, bullets were Speer 150gr. BTSP in Federal cases with CCI standard rifle primers. The loads were shot for a function test only and not for accuracy. Conditions at the range were very windy and the ghost ring sights of the SOCOM II do not lend themselves to target work.

38.0 grains, all 5 rounds functioned flawlessly.

39.7 grains, 1st two rounds had to be hand cycled. The bolt was still locked up in battery with empty shell case in the chamber. Shell case was ejected manually and next round was chambered. Last 3 rounds cycled flawlessly. Cases showed no signs of overpressure.

41.4 grains, 1st two rounds had to be hand cycled. The bolt was still locked up in battery with empty shell case in the chamber. Shell case was ejected manually and next round was chambered. Last 3 rounds cycled flawlessly. Cases showed no signs of overpressure.

43.1 grains, all 5 rounds functioned flawlessly. Cases showed no signs of overpressure.

What this all means I have no clue. I just found it strange that the low and high powder charges functioned flawlessly while the 2 intermediate loads needed to be hand cycled for the first 2 rounds.

The rifle and magazine that I was using have functioned flawlessly in the past with factory ammo. I've fired Federal American Eagle 150gr. FMJ BT's and Magtech 150gr. FMJ's through it. Hopefully I'll be able to obtain Varget or BL-C2 to try out for handloading in this rifle.
 
Originally posted by David Sinko:
I have come to the stark realization that my problems are due to improperly sized brass. I will need to get a small base sizing die for any of my loads to function properly. I did not realize how critical this is for proper extraction and ejection in a semiauto rifle. Shame on me!

I have learned a valuable lesson here...

Dave Sinko
Click to expand...

Sir, it's actually unusual to need a small-base resize die for semi-autos. None of my match rifles (M1s and ARs) or "as issued" semi-autos (M1s, ARs, M1As) has required a small-base re-size die. Nor do any of the other high power guys I know have to use small-base dies.

That said, I've read and heard so many reports of tight chambers in SA Inc. guns in recent years that it seems a common thing in those guns. Perhaps that's just how they do them, or maybe the chamber reamer used on your gun was just sharpened one time too many.

If you haven't done so already, check the gun's headspace. Short headspace is more dangerous than long headspace and can cause the problems you describe. If the headspace is incorrect, have SA Inc. fix it under their lifetime warranty.

Going back to brass and re-sizing, how do you re-size your brass now? Are you full-length re-sizing or just neck-sizing? Just so you know, neck-sizing is a no-no in gas guns; doing so can lead to problems similar to what you describe.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
I loaded and fired some 30 rounds with the RCBS small base sizer die. Things were going well until about the 25th round when the fired case wasn't fully pulled out of the chamber and there was a stoppage. A few of the others just barely ejected properly. I have been using 110 gr. RN because I'm tired of wasting good 150 gr. bullets. The above post wherein five rounds were fired with varying powder charges seems to be what I am experiencing. Why in the world would some of those mid-level loads need to be hand cycled? Maybe you are not loading enough test rounds and if you loaded more the results would be different? I fired only 20 rounds of factory loaded surplus ammo and they all cycled perfectly with the same ejection characteristics. Could it be a matter of how the chamber was cut? Would that affect the ejection and cycling? The whole thing is very bizarre and very aggravating.

I'm not one to send a second rate firearm back to the same factory that couldn't make it right in the first place. But I'm not so sure I have a second rate firearm. I know a very capable local gunsmith who is well versed in military rifles and the M1A. I'd just as soon pay him to evaluate it and make it work properly, if that's what it takes. I'm taking great care to resize my brass properly and use a wide range of powders and charges. Nothing helps. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd really like to know what it is.

Dave Sinko
 
Sir, a too-tight chamber can definitely affect cycling.

If the headspace is short, pressures go up (sometimes WAY up), causing sticky extraction. Too small in diameter, and the chamber may not admit in-spec rounds; or worse, the cartridges are "hammered" into the chamber and swaged down by the cycling of the bolt. This also can cause sticky extraction.

Frankly, I think it's a mistake to test with 110-grain bullets and a zillion different powders. The system was originally designed around 150s and IMR 4895; that's what you should be testing with.

Was it me, I'd try 150s and 4895 with data that indicates 2,800 fps from a 22-inch barrel. About 43.0 grains of powder should do it. (Check your manuals, of course.) If the gun won't run with that load, take it to your 'smith for evaluation.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
You have just convinced me to seek out a pound of IMR 4895. I'll give that a try with some of my 150 gr. bullets. Other SOCOM owners report good success with 110 gr. bullets, Hornady TAP to be more specific, so I figured I should be able to get those to function too. I'll have to go back to square one and start with the basic 150 gr. load though.

I loaded some 168 gr. Match Kings for a friend who has an older SOCOM II. He's waiting for a scope that he ordered, so soon I'll find out if my loads work in his rifle. That may not diagnose my problem, but it could still be very revealing.

Dave Sinko
 
FWIW, I just picked up a 2lb. can of Vihta Vouri N135 to try in my SOCOM II. When I was setting up my press to run a batch, I noticed that my sizing die had backed out from the toolhead.

This could explain the erratic functioning I had on my first attempt at handloads of H4895 with this rifle. I did have a ring of case lube just forward of the shoulder that was a PITA to wipe off the cases in that first batch. Something you might want to check on your die setup. I'm going to try another batch of H4895 loads as well as the N135 now that I have the sizing die re-adjusted.

I'll post up later in the week after I've had a chance to get out to the range and let you know how it worked.
 
David If you have not solved your SOCOM problem, or even if you haved you might want to try the following load.

A have been using this load in 308/7.62 rifles since 1975.

It works in M1 A's 308 M1 Garands, FN FAL's H&K 91's, Savage 99's bolt rifles, hunting and sniper and competition.

I have yet to find a 308 rifle that will not shoot this load pretty good and most shoot it as well as factory Federal 168gr match.

The bullets, Sierra 168 Match, 165 Spz, or the 165 HPBT Gameking, or the Nosler 165 Ballistic Tip, or 165 Nosler Partition.

The Powder IMR 3031, use 39.5 grains, CCI or Federal standard rifle primers.

Give this load a try.

I mostly use the Sierra 165 HPBT Gameking, it is a great hunting bullet, and feeds in semiautos perfect.
 
Another vote for 4895.

Full length re-size, small base die unnecessary; 40 gr. 4895 w/ 147-173 gr. bullet. Classic starting load. So good that it is often the only load ever tried.

Regards,

Tam 3
 
Ron H. said:
Frankly, I think it's a mistake to test with 110-grain bullets and a zillion different powders. The system was originally designed around 150s and IMR 4895; that's what you should be testing with.

Was it me, I'd try 150s and 4895 with data that indicates 2,800 fps from a 22-inch barrel. About 43.0 grains of powder should do it. (Check your manuals, of course.) If the gun won't run with that load, take it to your 'smith for evaluation.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
Click to expand...

What Ron said! If your rifle does not function with this load, it needs a return trip to Springfield Armory. ANY factory can have problems with their product, and while we may be indignant about that, as consumers, it is more important to get on with the job of getting things working properly.

Though Ron did not mention it, you might get a loaded ammunition gage and check your assembled rounds, if you are not doing this already.

Are you using good, hard brass? M-1A shooters seem to prefer Lake City.
 
You guys are the best!!

I have an M1A that I did not have good success handloading and have stuck with MilSurp and been happy with the 1-2" groups. Based on all the info posted here, I will be trying to load some rounds up for better results!

Thanks for all the info!
 
If you have a 308/7.62 rifle that is giving you accuracy or functioning problems, just buy some 168gr Federal Match.

If it does not shoot that stuff pretty good, with 100% reliability, then there is something wrong with your rifle.

I can say the same thing about "MY" reloads with 38.5gr of IMR 3031 with a 165/168gr bullets....

But the Federal factory load leaves no doubt.
 
mwtdvm said:
I have an M1A that I did not have good success handloading and have stuck with MilSurp and been happy with the 1-2" groups. Based on all the info posted here, I will be trying to load some rounds up for better results!

Thanks for all the info!
Click to expand...


I have never seen an M1 A, whether it was a standard, Match, Super Match, or a custom made M1 A or M14 that did not shoot my 39.5gr load with a 168gr Sierra Matchking, or the other 165gr bullets listed very good.

However for your ease of mind, just get a few boxes of Federals 308 168gr Match ammo.

Shoot that in your rifle, and tell us how it does.
 
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