Big John

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charlie sherrill

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I've known him for several years as do most of the local LEO's. He was a big guy around 6'6" and close to 300 lbs. He was also a bully and a bar room bruiser. My last experience with him was about three years ago. I got a call that John was destroying another bar. It took me about ten minutes to get there and as I walked in the door he was flipping over the last standing table. The patrons of the bar were huddled in a corner. I had "come to an understanding" with John on a previous call and was able to cuff him without any problems. As we left the bar I told John to say goodbye to everyone, which he did. I then told the patrons to say the same to John and they all said "goodbye John" and waved at the same time. I was just having a little fun.

Over the next few years I didn't get another call on John although I heard other officers dispatched to take care of problems he had caused. I retired 13 months ago. Yesterday I saw in the local fishwrap where Little Joe had shot and killed Big John not far from the bar I got him out of. I've known Little Joe for some time and I've never known him to get into or start any trouble. He's never been arrested. I don't know any details of the shooting because I don't work there anymore and didn't really feel like calling one of my old friends to see what happened, but I suspect Big John bit off more than he could chew.
 
I can sure relate to dealing with Big John. That's how I came to choose my screen name Iggy.
 
There are some-- ;) -- who refuse to be a victim. I hope it was justified in the eyes of the law, for the shooters sake. As in many such cases, it was only a matter of time :)
 
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Once witnessed a similar little man/big man confrontation in a bar I used to frequent. Big guy was humiliating (verbally and physically) the little fella in front of a couple of "hostesses". Finally hauled him by the neck to the front door and kicked him out. The poor guy got in his car and drove off. I guess about a half hour or so later the little fella came back in the front door with a revolver in his hand and a crazy look on his face. The big guy saw him and headed for the side door,with the little guy right behind him. The big guy made it to the parking lot but failed to use "evasive action",instead running away in a straight line. The guy with the gun pumped out all NINE rounds from a .22,hitting the runner five times in the back,shoulders and butt,turned around,walked back through the bar,out the front door,got in his car and left. Never said a word. No,the big guy didn't die,but I never saw either one of them back there again. That was the first time I ever saw a gun fired in a bar situation. That was about 1966 when fists,or the occasional knife,were used to settle drunken disagreements. All that said,I loved that place. It was right across the highway from the runway at Shaw AFB and their pool table provided a steady stream of income for this po boy.
f.t.
 
I've been around some in my time. Not every state but every part of the country and 12 or 15 foreign countries. Seems like most of the places I've been there's a Big John there if I'm there long enough to encounter him.

Being small I was the target for these guys for a while. I believe that I went through my story in another bully thread so I won't be chewin' my cabbage twice here but suffice it to say that while I was in the service I learned how to deal with it. Since that time it hasn't been much of a problem. And when I got too old to fight I started carryin' a gun and then it quit bein' a problem at all :D

But seriously you do need to be very careful when you stand up to a bully. Most of the time if/when you stand your ground and make a bully work too hard or take a little pain of his own, even if it takes more that one event, he will move along to easier pickin's. But be warned. There are some out there that LIKE to fight and the LIKE the pain. You stand up in front of one of those guys and you are gonna have a problem.

I don't know if the Big John in the OP is one that would move along if confronted or not but it reminds me of the story (supposedly true) that I read a while back. Typical scenario. Small town somewhere in East Texas in the 80s IIRC. Guy would come to town and push merchants and people on the street around. Molest women and girls. Steal and do criminal mischief just to pass the time of day. The law there was unable to do much about it.

One day after an incident he was getting into his car when gunshots rang out from several different directions. He was dead when he hit the ground. The investigation was unable to determine where exactly the shots came from or who might have done the shooting. Nobody heard or saw anything.

The moral of the story is: You can threaten and bully a rabbit but if you put him in a corner with no way out he will turn and fight...hard. The bully might be just foolin' around but when the victim turns and stands his ground he will NOT be foolin' around.
 
True story

I don't know if the Big John in the OP is one that would move along if confronted or not but it reminds me of the story (supposedly true) that I read a while back. Typical scenario. Small town somewhere in East Texas in the 80s IIRC. Guy would come to town and push merchants and people on the street around. Molest women and girls. Steal and do criminal mischief just to pass the time of day. The law there was unable to do much about it.

One day after an incident he was getting into his car when gunshots rang out from several different directions. He was dead when he hit the ground. The investigation was unable to determine where exactly the shots came from or who might have done the shooting. Nobody heard or saw anything.

The story is true, however it happened in Skidmore Mo

Jim in Iowa
 
It's kinda sad, but some folks gotta learn EVERY lesson the hard way. Sounds like Big John was one of them.
 
I've known a few guys like Big John over the years. It was all in how you talked to them.......

I know John wasn't a "friend" exactly. But, you sorta miss him anyway.
 
Sounds to me like Big John got exactly what he's been looking for all his life. He may have been too stupid to know what he was doing.
 
bgrone said:
I don't know if the Big John in the OP is one that would move along if confronted or not but it reminds me of the story (supposedly true) that I read a while back. Typical scenario. Small town somewhere in East Texas in the 80s IIRC. Guy would come to town and push merchants and people on the street around. Molest women and girls. Steal and do criminal mischief just to pass the time of day. The law there was unable to do much about it.

One day after an incident he was getting into his car when gunshots rang out from several different directions. He was dead when he hit the ground. The investigation was unable to determine where exactly the shots came from or who might have done the shooting. Nobody heard or saw anything.

The story is true, however it happened in Skidmore Mo

Jim in Iowa
Click to expand...

Sounds familiar. Wasn't there a TV movie or special made about that incident?
 
It's not always the Big Johns who are the BGs. Back in the 'Sixties I worked with a guy who was 5-foot-5 and weighed maybe 140 soaking wet. Everybody called him "Buddy," although that wasn't his real name.

I was working in New Orleans at the time so naturally a bunch of us went out for a few drinks just about every evening. Problem was, When Buddy got a few beers in him he started thinking he was ten feet tall and bulletproof. He'd look around and find the table with three or four of the biggest guys in the place and start making smart comments to them. Before long he was saying things like, "You better watch your mouth or me and my friends here will kick your asses."

Of course, his "friends" just wanted to have a quiet beer or two and go home. None of us wanted to make a side trip to the emergency room or jail. More than once we had to physically drag him out of a place. Finally, we just started having our beers without him.
 
Dealt with some big guys with more brawn than brains. I also encountered plenty of aggressive little guys. Most were acting like idiots under the influence of alcohol and/or trying to impress their cronies. It never worked out well for them...The Colt revolver was not know as "the great equallizer" for a good reason. Trying to bully anybody holding a gun is stupidity...The result is natural selection in action...
 
I had a business acquaintence, about 6'9" and 350 at least who when he drank whiskey would always start something. Never with me but with some poor guy in the joint that just made eye contact or something. I mean as big as he was everyone would look at him. One night I had another buddy, nice guy, friendly drinker about 15 years older than my large friend come in and before I knew it these two were into it. Time to get the hell out of there, this friend happened to be the ex president of one of Memphis' most notorius biker clubs. I understand the older fellow was getting pretty beat up until a few of his buddies showed up.

Thankfully by then I was a few miles away.
 
Glad to see you are back Charlie. As usual, another good story told by you!
 
Back in the middle '60's I moved to a small town in the Sierra Nevada's. We had been there a couple of weeks when about midnight I heard a ruckus by the highway. I got up & got my gun & walked outside. It was the neighbors 150 yards across the road fighting. George was about 6'3" & 290 lbs. His wife Betty was no slouch either,drinking or yelling. As the years went by George was kicked out of every bar in the county & by the grace of bartenders never spent a night in jail.Last I heard of George he was in the Booby Hatch in Idaho. Betty died of cancer later that year.
 
"Is there an oath I can relieve you of?"

I was a very sickly child. You can do a lot of reading when you spend the occasional two weeks in an oxygen tent. Always liked that line.
 
bgrone said:
Yes actually a book and more than one movie and a 60 minutes segment. Simply google Skidmore,Mo or Ken McElroy. His demise is not the only dark tail in that lil' burg, interesting reading.

Jim in Iowa
Click to expand...

I know folks who personally knew that fella, but kept at a distance. He was beyond a bully and did receive the correct medicine for his problem.
 
The "Big Johns"-I prefer Obnoxious John, the Big John I was thinking of was a real hero-need to be reminded that while God made some men big and some men small, Colonel Colt-and Daniel B. and Horace S.-made them all equal. And there are fates worse than Death.
 
bgrone said:
...it reminds me of the story (supposedly true) that I read a while back. Typical scenario. Small town somewhere in East Texas in the 80s IIRC. Guy would come to town and push merchants and people on the street around. Molest women and girls....[o]ne day after an incident he was getting into his car when gunshots rang out from several different directions. He was dead when he hit the ground. The investigation was unable to determine where exactly the shots came from or who might have done the shooting. Nobody heard or saw anything...
Click to expand...
A TV Movie was made, In Broad Daylight, the story of the killing of Ken Rex McElroy on the main street of Skidmore, Missouri in July 1981, from the book of the same name. In Broad Daylight: Harry N. MacLean: 9781482639872: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iF7qUAvZL.@@AMEPARAM@@51iF7qUAvZL

It was a good movie, I haven't read the books.
 
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