Bill Ruger vs. John Moses Browning

I often wonder where the gun industry would be if a Giant like Bill Ruger didn't come along after WWII. Dang guys, he started out in little more space then a 3 car garage and built an empire. He pushed the limits and brought a struggling gun industry back to life. The government had taken control of so much wartime production that the early years after WWII are of transitioning back into the civilian market.

I think if you look at this long enough, you have to realize that we the gun enthusiasts of the past 60 years actually owe William Ruger a great deal of thanks...

Browning was an inventive genius, a true giant. Ruger was an innovative genius who modernized the gun industry.

giz
 
I tend to give the nod to Bill Ruger-he was a designer AND a manufacturer AND he pioneered the use of investment casting, John Browning pretty much left the manufacturing to others. The Ruger organization has kept tight control over their designs, not licensing them to others (plus many of John M.'s design are in the Public Domain now)
hence Ruger designs are seen as Ruger specific-how many firms haave manufactured the M1911? On the other hand Browning designed the M1911, the military BAR, the M1919 machine gun, the M2 .50 Caliber which has given him more publicity, brand recognition so to speak.
 
No contest. Browning produced a mulititude of ORIGINAL designs and inventions that are still in use today. Ruger merely improved existing types of firearms and was very adept at implementing modern production techniques that allowed him to build a product of reasonable quality and to sell them cheaper than the competition.
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
I tend to give the nod to On the other hand Browning designed the M1911, the military BAR, the M1919 machine gun, the M2 .50 Caliber which has given him more publicity, brand recognition so to speak.
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That’s more than Bill Ruger every designed. Just what did Bill Ruger design of significance compared to the designs of John Browning? If one examines the total body of work that John Browning designed and compare it with Ruger’s body of work Ruger looks like a novice. Ask yourself this how much design work did Bill Ruger really do?
 
On a larger scale, Bill probably did more design work then John Moses Browning ever did. His scale was building modern equipment and design processes that moved the gun making tradition from a dying 19th century standard into the 20th century. His vision bridged the era from before WWII into current state of the art manufacturing.

Winchester, Colt, and many others have folded shop on the traditional guns that many grew up shooting. Ruger's vision is still carrying some of these traditional gun designs forward...

giz
 
Dennis...

Bought many of those Japanese Browning's lately?

I'd have to toss it back to you. Rugers are still made in America, by American workers....;)


giz
 
To paraphrase what Bum Phillips said about Earl Campbell being the best running back in professional football: John Browning may not the the best gun designer who ever lived, but it doesn't take long to call the roll.
 
Investment casting was around long before Bill Ruger, he was only instrumental in its use in firearms manufacturing. While some seem to think this is a good thing, I see it as the worst thing that ever happened to the industry. It sent a clear message to manufacturers that there is a market for second rate firearms, made by unskilled laborers and priced way above their real value. Now the market is flooded with them.
 
To my way of thinking, JMB would compare toTomas Edison. Bill Ruger would be comparible to Henry Ford.

Edison invented things. Ford took existing inventions and made them work better.

That doesen't make Ford inferior to Edison. Both were brilliant. But in differnt ways.
 
gizamo said:
I often wonder where the gun industry would be if a Giant like Bill Ruger didn't come along after WWII. Dang guys, he started out in little more space then a 3 car garage and built an empire. He pushed the limits and brought a struggling gun industry back to life. The government had taken control of so much wartime production that the early years after WWII are of transitioning back into the civilian market.

I think if you look at this long enough, you have to realize that we the gun enthusiasts of the past 60 years actually owe William Ruger a great deal of thanks...

Browning was an inventive genius, a true giant. Ruger was an innovative genius who modernized the gun industry.

giz
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THAT is an interesting observation.... I posit that if Ruger hadn't come along that S&W's would be made in South America by Banger Puta-Colt would be the pre-eminent American arms manufacturer and rburg would never have been born.
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
THAT is an interesting observation.... I posit that if Ruger hadn't come along that S&W's would be made in South America by Banger Puta-Colt would be the pre-eminent American arms manufacturer and rburg would never have been born.
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Howdaya say Cajun in Portuguese?
Never mind, I'll use the translator. :D
 
I own only 3 Rugers-an Old Model Blackhawk 357/9MM Convertible, and Old Model Super Blackhawk, a stainless Security Six. I don't consider them second, not by a long shot, my 6" Security Siz has always been very accurate. Rugers-Dan Wessons, as well, do not have the "cachet" of S&W or Colt but their quality is just as good.
 
FWIW, my Bisley Vaquero is every bit as well-finished and well made as a new Model 25 and will spend YEARS happily digesting loads that would quickly shoot the 25 out of time if not kaboom it. Before the new Classics came out, I would have said that I would hands down buy a new Ruger before a new S&W. But now that Ruger has inexplicably dropped the beefy framed Vaquero and Bisley Vaquero in favor of the smaller framed and less stout New Vaq and S&W has brought out the Classics line (Triple Lock .45 Colt, PLEASE?) Smith has eased out ahead by a neck if only asthetically; my gun tastes run from c. 1870-1935.
 
It's almost not a fair question. I own, and have owned many Rugers over the years, all of them outstanding firearms. Bill Ruger was a great sportsman and innovator. Most inventors have based some part of their design on pre-existing over the centuries, that's what we call progress, developement, etc. Both John Browning and Bill Ruger did the same. However, John Brownings innovations led to huge amounts of productivity, and introduced incredible innovations based on simpler mechanisms, which were almost revolutionary. No one would claim that Browning invented the lever action or the machine gun or auto pistol, but no single designer was able to make reliable, easy to maintain weapons like Browning. No other single designer would have the global impact on military weapons either. Browning improved and simplified the Maxim design enough that it spawned an entire series of reliable, sturdy and successful light and heavy machine guns, some of which are still used today. Other countries quickly based weapons on his designs, the Japanese and Germans most notably. The M2 .50 caliber still in use by the US military still bears his name on the TMs and of course the caliber was designed around the weapon (.50 caliber Browning Machine Gun). The M2 and matching cartridge could arguably be named the most important small arms of the twentieth century. Let's not forget Browning's relationship with FN which had quite an impact of it's own in Europe. Money is no measure of this kind of success, that was not part of the question. Many weapons around the world are based on "Browning" design, military, police and civilian and that's not mentioning cartridges based on weapons he designed. Browning had impact globally and had actual impact on history, so I would have to cast my vote for him. No respect lost for Bill Ruger though, and the great firearms his company has produced!

Raleigh
 
therevjay said:
To my way of thinking, JMB would compare toTomas Edison. Bill Ruger would be comparible to Henry Ford.

Edison invented things. Ford took existing inventions and made them work better.

That doesen't make Ford inferior to Edison. Both were brilliant. But in differnt ways.
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I think that pretty well sums it up. The first shotgun Browning designed and built was a was a muzzle loader and his last was the A-5. The 1911 and M2 50 cal are almost 100 years old, yet armies are still fielding them. Not second or third rate armies either. How do you top that?

Yet Ruger was great at designing and manufacturing reliable, affordable firearms people wanted. Single action revolver designs still fall into two categories, Rugers and Colt.
 
Rugers I have owned are: MKI, MKII Target, Speed Six, 2 Security Sixes, 2 Blackhawks, Redhawk, Vaquero, 2 10/22s and a Mini 14. I was also issued a Security Six for a security guard I had. They were all 70s-80s production except for maybe the Redhawk and one of the Blackhawks. I'm not sure when they were made, but I owned them in the 90s.

While they were functional, except for the .30 Carbine Blackhawk, "accurate" and "guality" are two descriptors I'd never use for them. Their quality was even less than the older Taurus revolvers I owned and is closer to my LLama Comanche. Poor accuracy and atrocious balance were the main reasons I got rid of them, all of them. Also in the 80s I worked for a local dealer. Rugers quality at that time was to the point we couldn't keep a SA in stock. We would open a box and send it back to the factory, where they should have never left in the first place. Their other firerarms had the highest rate of return and trade back than any other brand. It finally got to the point we wouldn't carry them and refused to order them. If someone tried to trade one in that was purchased from some other dealer, we suggested they sell it somewhere else because we weren't going to get burned on them anymore.

Maybe their quality has gotten better, but that experience left a much longer lasting impression on me. I simply don't trust the way they do business. And they may very well be the best deal on the market today, I won't buy any other new firearms either so I'll never know.

So, if it took Bill Rugers death to get the quality control improved to a reasonable level, isn't this whole thread is a moot point?
 
Since we've digressed from the OP, I've owned 2 Rugers, a mini 14 and a Single Six. Sold both, and have never bought another.
 
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