BK Grip Adapters

Phase one, complete:

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So far I would say the fit is near perfect. I will give the edges a very light sanding just to take the sharp edge some rounding. This Friday will be range testing... More to come...

But so far...:D
 
Oh man. Ill buy two K frames, and 1 N frame.. I cant wait for when they are available. I feel like a kid on christmas!
 
Those black grip adapters look pretty good; some fine finishing of the rough edges should do wonders. Hope you can find a suitable mix that will look good with aluminum and nickeled finishes! Keep us posted on progress. I think you will have plenty of folks to sell to!

John
 
Phase one, complete:

So far I would say the fit is near perfect. I will give the edges a very light sanding just to take the sharp edge some rounding. This Friday will be range testing... More to come...

But so far...:D

Nice pix, Bob. Thanks for posting them. I'm always glad for people to see that there's more than just me and Photoshop behind this project ;)
 
I don't wanna rain on the parade, but I am not having alot of luck fitting the J-frame adapter to my M&P340. There is a gap of day-light between frame and adapter. I tried them on the revolver with both S&W grips and after-market grips. Pix attached.....

Should I grind into the channel to allow the frame to seat or just try them on a different J-frame?
 

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I don't wanna rain on the parade, but I am not having alot of luck fitting the J-frame adapter to my M&P340. There is a gap of day-light between frame and adapter. I tried them on the revolver with both S&W grips and after-market grips. Pix attached.....

Should I grind into the channel to allow the frame to seat or just try them on a different J-frame?

No, those don't look like they're fitting quite right, Tom. I checked yours (and everybody else's I mailed out the other day) on my 49 (20 years old, steel) and they fit fine. I've also just checked another one from the same mold on my 442 which is only a couple of months old. I only have one pair of the standard (Magna) grips, so I used them on both guns.

In both cases, the top radius of the grip adapter comes at least up to if not actually a hair above the frame edge ahead of where the grip ends. It looks like yours won't go up that high. On both of mine, the front lip of the adapter also rests against the back of the trigger guard. I can't tell if yours fits well in that spot or not - looks like maybe, but not sure.

The bottom tip of the grip adapter should be about a full quarter of an inch above the bottom line of the grip frame. Looks like yours might not fit up that high.

Can you tell where the interference is coming from? Is the channel above the copper clip too narrow, such that it's bottoming out on the frame before the adapter gets fully up around it? I'm not sure why it should be doing that on your frame when it didn't on mine, but then again maybe the Scandium frames have a slightly different contour.

One thing you might check: I believe the adapters actually "bottom" (top?) out against the wood of the grips. On my grips, the bottom "tip" of the grip is exactly on top of the edge of the frame. I can't tell for sure from the photos, but it looks like on yours the left hand (cylinder latch) side grip has a tip that might come down below the edge of the frame. It looks like the adapter is pretty well snug up against the wood of the grip, but it may be the shape of the grip that won't let it get up high enough to meet the frame.

If the problem is not the grip itself keeping the adapter down away from the frame, you can certainly file or grind out the channel if you like. It's more likely to be the sides that need to be thinned than the bottom of the channel itself, but in any event please be careful doing so. I use an Xacto wood carving blade in the large handle to relieve the channel (which is completely blocked by the casting sprue when the thing comes out of the mold) but the plastic is softer when I'm carving on it. I also use a leather thimble on my carving thumb, and a full carving glove on my other hand, when I'm wielding a knife around these things. It's awfully easy to slip when carving on this relatively hard substance.

But if you'd rather not mess with it, please just send the thing back and I'll refund your original payment plus the return shipping.

Whichever way you want to go, many thanks for your feedback.
 
Those black grip adapters look pretty good; some fine finishing of the rough edges should do wonders. Hope you can find a suitable mix that will look good with aluminum and nickeled finishes! Keep us posted on progress.

The top edges were the worst segment of the mold that just died. There was a huge sprue that came in there, that I had to keep trimming back to get rid of air pockets that left voids. This in turn produced a ragged top edge that had to be trimmed, filed, etc. And I haven't found a polishing system that can put those edges back to fully smooth. It's all cosmetic, of course, but I'm hoping that the new mold will solve that particular problem, at least partially.

As to colors for stainless and nickel frames, I'm guessing that my light gray ( a little lighter than the gray one I photographed earlier) will be an OK solution unless and until I can find a technology that allows a true metallic look. When I get past the basic black production I'll make a few gray ones in different tones and try to find nickel and stainless frames to check 'em out on. (Note: sentence ended with TWO prepositions. Extra points. :D )
 
I will put some more time into looking at proper fit tomorrow when I am more coherent. I do know that the after-market grips are much thinner than the S&W ones and the adapter still does not fit well at the rear of the trigger-guard/front of grip. I still see day-light between adapter and frame.

If I can get some better pix tomorrow, I will forward those, too.
 
Wrangler5,

I think your project is absolutely great. I'm glad to see somebody who decides to just do it. I've got a couple suggestions. Maybe you've already thought of them.

From what I have seen of a lot of older Smiths, up through the postwar period, the grip frame profiles don't always seem to be perfectly uniform from run to run. But maybe that was only in pre-CNC days. I wonder if your molds could be made to cast a more concave inner surface, so only the sprue has to be cut/trimmed/ground out? I'm talking much more concave than fitting right against the rounded revolver frame. Leave a slight empty space in the middle, maybe 1/16" deep, with only the edges fitting closely to the pistol frame. They'll be more easy to fit, but also...

For the following reason...

Installation could then involve laying a thin bead of G.E. clear silicone or the equivalent into the concave area, attaching the adapter, tightening the grip screw, and wiping away the oozed silicone with a clean soft cloth. It cures overnight. And the adapters would be a perfect, non-moving fit to any frame within a series. Those thin mounting tabs would do an even better job of holding the thing in place, as there would be no tendency to move laterally or horizontally. It would be rock solid, even under considerable recoil. But it would still pop right off when you want it to remove it. Then peel away and discard the silicone, before mounting on another gun. It's wonderful, trouble free, non-toxic stuff to work with.

A tiny throw-away tube of silicone could be included with the adapter. Other people package it besides G.E.

The stuff would not damage bluing or aluminum and it comes right off anytime. A new bead of silicone would perfect-fit it to another gun which might have a slightly different frame profile. So no adapter has to be permanently modified to fit only one particular gun. The silicone custom fits it, if the adapter's mating surface is kept slightly concave, to hold silicone.

Another suggestion: Experimentation should show what proportion of powdered aluminum or metallic pigment mixed into the resin would make the adapters a dead ringer for metal. And with good molds, they ought to look almost like they are polished.

By the way, you can mix various pigments with the clear silicone also, if you want even the hairline frame/adapter joint to be the "right" color.

I've played around with pigments in molded synthetics in bygone years, and it doesn't take much to get some pretty nice effects. And with most epoxies, you would have to use far too much of it before coming close to interfering with strength or setting/curing characteristics.

And another one: A Dremel tool with a 1/2" sanding drum and an AMERICAN MADE coarse slip-on sanding insert will take care of all your removal of material from the inner area which fits against the frame. Just don't run it too fast, or it will heat and soften your part, and the sanding surface will permanently load up. Then you'll have to spend $.30 on another one. ;)There is little danger of slipping and ruining the part, or your anatomy, and one insert would do many, many pieces. I have not yet found a Chinese insert that lasts more than a few seconds. The good ones are great for wood, plastic, even steel. I use them for shaping custom wood grips, where I may need to remove a lot or just a little wood in the easiest, quickest way.

Good luck. Great project. You must be having a lot of fun with this.:)
 
Thanks for all the thoughts, PhilOhio. I have indeed thought of some of these things, but it's always good to get even the same thought from a different set of eyes.

As to the fit of the adapters, they already are pretty "hollow" down their center. They really index at their edges, mostly against the wood of the grips. But the idea of using silicone to fill in between the adapter and the frame is an interesting one. It certainly seems like a low risk proposition for anyone who wants to try it.

I have discussed the powdered aluminum approach with my materials supplier. That is indeed an available option, with materials available from their catalog. But it involves a more complex routine for preparing the mold for each pour, requires a mold dedicated to cold casting of the particular metal involved, it takes 24 hours to cure, and then requires polishing the demolded part to get down to the embedded metal. So, significant mold expense for 1 part/day that still requires hand finishing. I sort of concluded that it wouldn't be the most profitable way to spend my time.

Thanks for mentioning the Dremel tool. As I already noted, the inside of the adapter is already hollow, so I don't need to sand or grind it out. But you remind me that I could put a small, side cutting mill in a Dremel and it might cut through the sprue easier than the Xacto knife I'm using now. Have to give that a try tomorrow.
 
M&P 340 fit

Originally Posted by luangtom
I don't wanna rain on the parade, but I am not having alot of luck fitting the J-frame adapter to my M&P340. There is a gap of day-light between frame and adapter. I tried them on the revolver with both S&W grips and after-market grips. Pix attached.....

Should I grind into the channel to allow the frame to seat or just try them on a different J-frame?



I have a M&P 340 and the trigger guard seems to be bigger than any of my other 3 J frames(a 640 pre-lock, 442 pre-lock and a 642 pre-lock). It did not fit my other J frame holsters. Fit too tight in the trigger guard area. This may be why luangtom is having trouble with his adapter.
 
FYI... Many of the Tyler adapters I've used over the years did not fit well... especially at the top of the curve behind the trigger guard. I'm not sure if this was a Tyler issue or an issue of guns with different years of manufacture being different at that location.
 
FYI... Many of the Tyler adapters I've used over the years did not fit well... especially at the top of the curve behind the trigger guard. I'm not sure if this was a Tyler issue or an issue of guns with different years of manufacture being different at that location.

I've had this issue when switching my small sample of T Grips around from gun to gun. They fit some guns better than others.

I never let it bother me--I don't expect a piston fit from something like this.
 
The last I knew (and this might have changed) GE silicone contains acetic acid (that's what gives it a vinegar smell). I would be afraid that the acid might eat into the blueing or cause stains. Just a word of caution.
 
"The last I knew (and this might have changed) GE silicone contains acetic acid (that's what gives it a vinegar smell). I would be afraid that the acid might eat into the blueing or cause stains. Just a word of caution."

Loco Weed, that's really important to know. I had noticed the smell, but did not know it contained acetic acid. I also noticed that some of the other silicone, or similar to silicone, sealers do not have the same smell. Maybe they do not all use acetic acid. All of these are recommended for use on steel and aluminum, among other things, but I guess a little research and experimentation would get us to the exact correct one.

But I think this concept is the way to go, for getting all the "play" out of an attachment like this, and keeping it secure under many recoil cycles. In fact, if it doesn't move around, it should also eliminate all, or almost all, creation of shiny spots on the bluing or anodization. It creates a cushion.
 
If you cast any K-Frame that end up black or gray swirl, let me know! Might be just the thing for these black pearls on my 64.
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Are the adapters injection molded shots or poured molds? Just curious.

At the moment I'm pouring. I can see, though, that long term I'm going to have to go to injection molding, at least for the high(er) volume models. I may keep pouring custom colors on request, if things work out that I have enough time to do so.
 
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I'm glad to hear things are progressing. Good for you! I will be keeping your contact info if I need a "grip" adapter in the near future..
 
I had a last second change of heart. My hand needs rubber between it and steel for the 640 to make sense to carry. So since I have a sudden aversion to alloy frames... The Lady Smith gets a new pair of shoes and a range visit tomorrow:

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I did take the sharp edge off with some fine sand paper and the fit is again near perfect. There is a slight amount more gap with this stock since the wood is more rounded. My hand doesn't feel a thing but I will see tomorrow at the range. If this works out well, this may be my carry gun over my 637 if it gets repaired.
 
Just received one yesterday from Kipp, and put it on my Flat Latch 36. Perfect fit. luangtom, I think the fit problem on your M&P340 may be due to the grips. I had a set of Ajax polyIvory grips on a Mod 60, and could not get a original T-Grip to ever fit right. Was hitting on the grip edge which has a different contour than the factory grip. Some of the new Factory grips now have a different contour than the older grips.
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Nope, the problem I am experiencing is not the grips. The adapter does not even go up to the frame at the back of the trigger-guard without grips on the revolver. It does not seat at all on this model J-frame.
 
I just installed the pair I received on my 351C, excellent fit and finish, better than some of my Tyler's. Great Job, Thanks Kip!
 
Nope, the problem I am experiencing is not the grips. The adapter does not even go up to the frame at the back of the trigger-guard without grips on the revolver. It does not seat at all on this model J-frame.

I have just spent some time grinding out the "channel" above the copper clips to widen it about as much as I think it will stand. I'm going to send this one to you to see if that fixes the fit problem on your M&P340. If it does, fine, you can keep it (but please post photos.) If not, then just send both of 'em back and I'll refund your money. The modified one fits my steel J frame just fine, so I can resell it.

In any event, buyers will have to be warned that, as delivered, these adapters may not fit the 340. Even if this special unit does fit, I won't be able to produce a separate 340 line of these things. But if widening the channel can make the adapter work on that model I can at least advise customers that some judicious grinding will be necessary for a proper fit.
 
I have just tried the adapter on a Model 640. It does not fit with the seating that your photos show either. So, yes, please do send your modified one and I will try that on both of these revolvers. If they do not fit, I will return them to you. Did you retain my mailing-address or do I need PM you with it?

Thank you.
 
I have just tried the adapter on a Model 640. It does not fit with the seating that your photos show either. So, yes, please do send your modified one and I will try that on both of these revolvers. If they do not fit, I will return them to you. Did you retain my mailing-address or do I need PM you with it?

Thank you.

It's already gone. Wife got home early and took it to the local USPS window, so with luck you should have it on Monday. Thanks for your patience.
 
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