Black Powder Load Data for DA 4th model 32 S&W

[GBertolet]

I have a 4th model DA 32 S&W, and a Forehand Arms breaktop in 32 S&W also. The 32 long case will fit in the Forehand revolver cylinder, although I believe it is still intended for the 32 S&W round also. I have tried very light smokeless loads of Bullseye, in both these old revolvers, with no issues, but in the interests of safety, I would like to try black powder, as it's what these guns were designed for. I have a 77gr mold, and a 90 gr mold on the way.

What would be a safe, but full power load of that era, for these revolvers? Are wads needed? Is 3F the proper grade of powder?

 

[crstrode]

Black powder is simple.

Yes, 3F is correct.

No, do not use a wad.

Fill the case so that the seated bullet about rests on the powder. A little more or a little less is fine as well.

(Disregard anyone that says it must be exactly filled with no airspace, or no compression - that is a lot of hooey). The best thing to do is figure out the right amount and stick to that volume. Do not weigh the powder.

Pyrodex is good stuff and less of a hassle than real Black Powder - give that some consideration. All the above applies to Pyrodex as well.

 

[dave1918a2]

Put the bullet beside the case where You are going seat it to. Mark the case and put in 3FFF to just above the line. Pour the powder out of the case into a black powder measure and set that measure for Your reloading. Do NOT use a scale. Standard primers and decent crimp and You will be good to go. Have fun.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Rather than give a load that is just Okay or hearsay; Here is data from Hodgdon loading manual #24 (copyright 1983) I'll give several in the same family.

32 Short Colt 80gr LRN 9gr FFFg 700fps
32 Long Colt 82gr LRN 13gr FFFg 705fps
32 S&W 85gr LRN 4.5grFFFg 550fps
32 S&W Long 98gr LRN 13gr FFFg 780fps
320 Revolver 80gr LRN 6gr FFFg 550fps
32 Colt N. P. 100gr LRN 11gr FFFg 725fps (Colt's version of 32 S&W Long)
8mm Label 110gr FMJ 11gr FFFg 625fps
7.5mm Nagant 105gr LRN 11.5gr FFFg725fps (Swedish load)

Earlier in this section, they stated these were loaded by volume, but none of my volume powder measurers were this fine so I weighed charges this small, and used that to set the volume measure.

Note on Colt's ammo: 32 Short and Long Colt are much smaller in diameter than S&W. 32 Colt New Police is the same case as 32 S&W Long, just with a heavier bullet.

There was no info given about bullet lube, but from experience, you need more than the groves in bullet moulds for smokeless loads. Most factory BP loads had hollow base bullets filled with lube. To get around this for an afternoon of target practice, just slather the nose of the loaded cartridge in Crisco or lard. (I keep a small tin of butter flavored Crisco in my shooting box, it really works!) You can use a popsicle stick and fill the front of the chamber, like cap and ball revolvers, but that is a little much!

As always, load one and see if it fits, and go from there.

Have fun making clouds!

Ivan

ETA: You can use the same volume of Pyrodex CTG with this data, but you will have lower velocities! The clean up is the exact same!

 

[glowe]

A 32 Long case will hold 14 grains of 3F, and offer way more high pressure possibilities than your light smokeless loads. Pyrodex still contains sulfur and will burn hotter than black powder, so still requires soap and water cleanup, so not anything gained.

If I were to load 32 Long in a revolver designed for 32 S&W, I would definitely use a wad to reduce volume and potential pressures. Original 32 S&W black powder load data printed on a label of a couple of ammo boxes in my collection list an 88 grain RN lead with 10 grains BP.

DO NOT leave air space in any black powder load you might plan. It increases pressure exponentially and can result in damage to your gun or to you or both. One should compress black powder 1/16" to 1/8" with the bullet as you load the round to assure you have properly loaded ammo. Personally, I would stick with smokeles.

 

[GBertolet]

Thanks guys, you are a wealth of information. I will have to find a can of 3F BP. After determining a charge, I could make a dipper out of an old cartridge case. How would powder coating the bullets work for BP? I do that for 9mm and 45 cal pistol bullets now.

 

[6string]

If you want period data and information on the techniques of the time, check out:
"Modern Pistols and Revolvers" by A.C. Gould.
This was a late 19th century text, available in modern reprints.
There is a wealth of information, much of it specifically intended for the break-top revolvers of the day.

Best Regards,
Jim

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Powder coated bullets will work fine, but have zero lube. They won't lead the barrel, but give absolutely no help with powder fouling. Back to Crisco on the nose or a lube cookie under the bullet. (you already lost powder capacity to the modern solid head cases. If you can find it there is FFFFg powder. Normally used for priming flintlocks. You could reduce the load volume by 10% and have almost the same velocity. I never tried this due to the scarcity and expense of such a limited use powder.

The fouling build up of one cylinder of shots shouldn't be too bad with the high quality powder like Goex or Swiss. But there is some Chinese BP on the market the last few years that fouls extremely bad.

There is a BP substitute called "American Pioneer". (I bought a large supply 8 to 10 years ago at Cabela's, not sure where to get it now), it has also been sold as "Shockley's American Gold". It contains no sulfur and is a quick clean with hot water, or smokeless solvent (it WILL absorb moisture from the air and rust a gun in a few days, as apposed to 24 hours with BP) There is no fouling build up at all, like with BP or Pyrodex. It is made with ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and is eatable! and resembles and smells like granular molasses. I use this powder extensively in shotgun cartridges (FFg for 12gauge and FFFg for 20 gauge and 410), because of the lack of fouling and gives the best velocity for the BP class of powders. I just swab the bore and wipe down the action with Hoppes No 9, the dry and oil.

Ivan