Blew up my 629 today..embarrassed

[Rule3]

It still makes no sense to me. You can pull every bullet on every remaining case but that will not tell you what happened on that one particular round. Even with a overcharge, I would think the pressure would go to the point of least resistance, just like a relief valve on a water heater or a pressure cooker. That point on a cartridge would be the release of the bullet or blow out the primer. Even a double charge I doubt would do that to a revolver. But, I am also guessing and have no idea.

Was there a squib preceding this shot, was it out of time and the bullet never went in the forcing cone??

It's all guess work from now on.

I do not use Tite Group but there has been millions of pounds of it used and well as other fast or faster powders, so who knows for sure it's the powder??. No pun intended but folks reading this will be shell shocked over that powder, OH NO Mr Bill, not that powder, It blows up guns!!

It's getting to be like all Glock 40 SW blow up.

You are OK and that is what matters,

 

[Warren Sear]

As a new reloader,I find this post to be gospel ...

mickeyblueyes, what you are reading in this thread are mostly peoples' opinions, speculations, prejudices, experiences, and "I-told-you-so's"; not gospel. You would do well to keep that in mind.

 

[varmint243]

mickeyblueyes, what you are reading in this thread are mostly peoples' opinions, speculations, prejudices, experiences, and "I-told-you-so's"; not gospel. You would do well to keep that in mind.

I think the one "gospel" take-a-way from this thread is

Safety Safety Safety

No matter what the root case of this particular incident.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Rule3 may be onto something just as much as Skip is, IMHO.

There is little reason to think of Titegroup as the boogyman, but then again there is good reason to always reload with the safest practices that you can employ.

I still see Titegroup as a powder that is just hard to see in deep cases. Without constant ever present vigilance Titegroup may be a bad choice in powder to use.

But one thing is for sure. You don't hear about these problems with safe practical use of bulkier powders that are easier to see in the case.

 

[Rule3]

But the question rears its head again that their are faster powders than Tite Group (yes it may be denser) but how often do you hear of Bullseye "blowing up" I can perhaps see a double charge of any powder but a a triple or quad?? That's a bit much IMO.
I do not use faster powders in big magnum cases so I am not real worried, I use Bullseye in 45 ACP and 38 Special. So if I use 5 grains in a 230 gr 45 ACP and do a double to 10 grains I believe I will see that. Even if I don't and shoot it I think it will blow through the barrel and not the top strap, maybe I am wrong. ??

 

[varmint243]

how often do you hear of Bullseye "blowing up"

When I started reloading back in the mid-eighties most of the blow-ups I read about were with Bullseye. That is specifically why I still don't use Bullseye to this day. I strongly suspect that it happened more with Bullseye because more light loads in large revolver cases were made with Bullseye. But I still decided to steer clear.

Was there scientific proof that detonation did or did not occur ? no.

Did it seem like there was a rise in the number of detonations with the increase in popularity of cowboy action shooting that was using light loads in even larger cases ? yes.

My decision was based upon speculation and not scientific evidence.

 

[varmint243]

being a little silly here, but I made up some numbers to attempt to show my point as to why this has not been scientifically proven or disproven.

lbs fast powder per year 100,000
number of years 10
lbs per decade 1,000,000
grains per lb 7,000
grains per decade 7,000,000,000
4 grains = light charge 4
light charge rounds per decade 1,750,000,000
25 gun detonations per decade 25
light charges divided by blow ups 70,000,000
probabbility of gun blow up per decade 1 in 70,000,000 light loads
1 in 70,000,000 light loads = statisticly insignifigant (unluss your the unlucky person holding the gun when it happens)

 

[varmint243]

Pulled 10 random rds last night. Weighed each bullet and powder charge. Powder weights were 4.8 gr of titegroup, and the bullet heads were 240gr.

Dutch, did you ever pull the rest of the rounds from that lot ?
I am still very curious.

My assumption is that if all of the other cartridges from that batch have proper powder charges that you were probably not having powder charge issues.

When I have had powder charge issues and I have had to go back thru and break down any suspect rounds it has never been a single cartridge issue for me.

 

[smokemeister25]

I always looked at it this way. When you have an error with a powder that somewhat fills the case and you get a couple of extra grains on a 20 gr. charge it's not nearly as devastating as getting a couple extra grains when you only wanted 4 or 5 to begin with..

I always wanted to try 296 in my 44 mag but shyed away becauandse they say underloading as we as over is dangerous. I like things with some forgiveness

 

[firescout]

...I always wanted to try 296 in my 44 mag but shyed away becauandse they say underloading as we as over is dangerous. I like things with some forgiveness

I have used a fair amount of W296 in .44 Mag and .357 Mag loadings, and never had a problem. The loads have all been near-maximum.

From what I understand, a powder charge less than the published starting weight has a chance of poor ignition and resulting squib-type performance, lodging a bullet in the barrel. Mostly an inconvenience, but it may cause a ruined barrel if one ignores the reduced report/recoil and shoots another (normal) round into it.

 

[Skip Sackett]

H110/W296 is a wonderful powder for the 44Mag. It will usually give top velocities and that means killing power and as a hunting round, it is what you want.

It is almost impossible to overcharge a load in 44Mag using it. A maximum load fills the case so full that there is little room for error and still be able to seat a bullet!

3% difference, maximum to minimum, and no more. Magnum primers are a must especially in colder weather. Squibs are the danger, no blowing up a gun, unless as has been stated, you chase one with a ful power load.....Not good at that point!

 

[bluetopper]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon and keep beating a dead horse but after John Ross posted pictures on this forum in the past of Tightgroup blowing up a few 500 S&W Magnum revolvers in unrelated incidents you couldn't make me use the stuff.
Also I have first hand experience that it burns hotter than other powders in cartridges it was designed for like 45acp.

Titegroup and Lil'Gun I'll never use. Too many other alternatives out there in the marketplace.

 

[Fishslayer]

The two powders I see recommended most often as Titegroup and Clays and every time I see those recommended I think 'handgrenade'. They have their place but like others have already said, I think they are used in applications where they shouldn't be.

No hate here for the stuff but I won't touch it with a barge pole. It is notorious for being unforgiving of errors.

I cringe when I see the "New to reloading what powder for my .40 S&W?" thread and inevitably somebody chimes in with "You should use Titegroup."

 

[BCDWYO]

Thanks for sharing Dutch and I'm glad you are ok. Sorry about the loss of a nice gun but I gotta think you probably ruined a perfectly good pair of shorts too...no?

 

[venomballistics]

Thanks for sharing Dutch and I'm glad you are ok. Sorry about the loss of a nice gun but I gotta think you probably ruined a perfectly good pair of shorts too...no?

color coding ones shorts kinda goes without saying

 

[SuperMan]

..also glad you were not injured... About 15 years ago a friend was shooting a 629 with factory loads when one "felt funny". When he looked the topstrap had exited through the metal roof above him. Smith replaced the gun and the ammo went back to the company involved...no one was again injured...

I try and use a load that at least 1/2 fills the case as I use a progressive loader and want to be able to see the double charge. I use Unique almost exclusively anymore for my target loads and it works well even in .475 Linebaugh and 500 S&W.

A double charge is very easy to do in a progressive reloader. Jam a primer when the upstroke has been complete, let the ram down, put another shell/primer in and upstroke again and you have now double charged the case under the powder measure.

Bob

 

[dcxplant]

SO glad you are okay, and BRAVO for sharing your experience so we all can learn, and get a reminder that reloading is serious bid'ness.

I have only been reloading for about a year and am pretty inexperienced.

For this reason I always use powders that will overflow the case in each caliber I load (.40, .44, .45).

Again thank you for sharing!

 

[Skip Sackett]

A double charge is very easy to do in a progressive reloader. Jam a primer when the upstroke has been complete, let the ram down, put another shell/primer in and upstroke again and you have now double charged the case under the powder measure.

Bob

Bob,
Good comment AND this is one reason that I almost always suggest an auto-indexing press. The RL550B or it's predecessor the RL450B are good presses, don't get me wrong but this double charge is easily accomplished in them. On the others, you have to back the press up with cases still in it. A bit harder to do but, and yes I have done it, can be done......

Thanks for the tip!

 

[mkk41]

I don't understand the thinking behind using such small charges of fast burning powders in such large cases. The potential for a catastrophic double-charge is too great.

Ya want light loads , use .44 Special or Russian brass.

If ya single charge your cases , do a block of 25 or so and visually compare powder levels.

A double or triple charged case becomes obvious.

 

[TexasRider]

Dutch:

You were using a progressive right? While a double could happen, it appears unlikely to catastrophically damage the gun.

Was there anything else going on that could be the cause? Like for instance, is the wrong powder in the measure? Is this a dedicated machine, or the powder cylinder? If it is a multi use machine and hopper, then maybe there was other powder(s) in the lower part of the measure (not cleaned out completely from last use) which dropped?


One thing we do here is ONLY to have one powder on the bench at a time.

Once my buddy did pour some other powder in to the hopper, so there were 2 there. He did not remember which he loaded and what might have gone back in the bottle. I instantly poured the remaining powders from both the hopper and those bottles on the lawn and pulled the bullets and dumped all of those cases, decapped them, and tossed it all. It was the only way I could be SURE that I had got it all.