Blue Book vs Gunbroker pricing rant

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MN2944

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When it comes to P&R Smith and Wessons, it seems like Blue Book is becoming pretty much useless. The prices I see revolvers selling for on GB are typically 50-100% higher than what is listed in BB. Isn't the online version of BB supposed to be updated regularly?

I think we are entering an age where sellers are just looking at the highest recent sale on Gunbroker and going with it. Of course, as long as there is a bidder or two out there, they are likely to get what they are asking.

How the heck do you even decide what something is worth? It's more like: It's what I want. It's in the stated condition. Do I have the money to buy it? Obviously, not a good investment strategy, but it doesn't seem like there is much choice.
 
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I think the Blue Book is valuable for estimates, but prices for completed auctions/sales are a much better indicator of current prices. Looking at the latter and knowing what you are willing to spend (which may not be the same) is the way to go, especially if you happen upon the occasional Buy Now at 25% of current pricing...
 
If I want to sell something, I use GB prices for guns in similar shape, to get an idea for what clowns will pay.

Since I'm not a clown, I use the Blue Book if I'm interested in buying something. If they sell for that or less, I make the purchase. :)
 
gm272gs said:
If I want to sell something, I use GB prices for guns in similar shape, to get an idea for what clowns will pay.

Since I'm not a clown, I use the Blue Book if I'm interested in buying something. If they sell for that or less, I make the purchase. :)
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The problem is, that all a seller needs is one "clown". What seller is going to list it a BB when they can be pretty sure they can sell it for "clown" pricing on GB. The value is redefined by the market on a daily basis.
 
The Blue Book has always been useless. As stated above what people will pay for an item is the ONLY factor of importance.
I also must confess that in my "gunshow" days I always kept a current copy of the Blue Book under my table and would use it to lowball perspective sellers. I have since reformed and now use my last copy for a good laugh every now and then.
Chip King
 
The price is what the market will pay. It's not really that much different than buying a blender at Target for $40 and then getting home and seeing it is on Amazon for $28. It is worth what someone will pay, if it weren't, it would remain unsold.

When it comes to P&R Smiths, however, it is not just a case of stupid-buyer demand... it is also a case of dwindling supply. There are a lot of guys who buy excellent condition older guns and turn them into well-worn working guns, which also is a constant acceleration on the price.
 
chipking
The Blue Book has always been useless. As stated above what people will pay for an item is the ONLY factor of importance.
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What he said.

In the past it was ALWAYS highly inflated and did not reflect the market conditions. Since the latest gun / ammunition freak out it is dramatically under priced. It did not reflect the panic situation or the current situation where prices are again shifting up and down as people who over spent for purchases in the last few years try to recoup their purchase price.

As always, the current market situation is what determines prices.
 
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You can't blame the seller for wanting to get the most out of their items. I agree some of the asking prices are crazy over on Gunbroker, but people are actually bidding. Make a list of what you want and be willing to pay more than the other guy. That is the only advice I can give you. One day your grand kids will be laughing and saying what a good deal you got at only a thousand or two.
 
I managed a gun store before I started law school in '90. We'd always kinda roll my eyes when someone came in waving a Blue Book. They have never been more than the roughest of pricing guides, giving a reader no idea whatsoever of what the pulse of the marketplace is. And how could they? They're written well in advance of when they actually hit the street, then they linger on the street for years . . . if you want to know what your gun is worth today, you're going to have to do the research footwork or talk to someone who has.
 
Blue Book is worthless when it comes to determining the value of guns. The book does make a great tool for dealers when doing trade in or buys from some unsuspecting soul. Pricing on Smiths is so volatile now that I doubt any format could keep up with it. I have a 58 & a 6" 28 that I keep thinking about selling, but then I look at the constantly escalating prices and hesitate.
 
Gunbroker vs gun dealer

I've taken a NIB Colt trooper MK-V to gun shows and offered them to dealers and the highest price quoted was $600. Put it on gun broker and got a top bid of over $1200. Anybody that sells a gun to a dealer for BB is the "clown". Times have changed with the Internet. Not only for guns but everything. The Internet made it easy to sell/shop the whole country ( or world) instead of your local area.

I would not be investing in any shopping centers nowadays ;)
 
I just use the BB for gun info. I recently bought a Colt Lawman series SAA. The book told me how many where made and when.

For pricing, I use completed GB auctions.

I was in a shop a couple of years ago and found some K/L target stocks for sale. No price listed. I asked what they wanted for them? The dealer went straight onto GB to find his price.
 
I was an institutional money manager my entire career, dealing primarily in bonds. Bonds, like firearms, are an over the counter market where the bid and ask prices can vary a lot. Your only weapons are knowledge and patience. Blue book is only a tool for determine relative value between different models...the market (GB, LGS, Internet retailers, etc.) determines the prices level. That being said, guns are not only an investment, they are also a hobby. The enjoyment you get from a purchase often times out weighs the angst from paying too much.

One final thought. Don't be concerned what the seller paid for the gun...if the price represents value, just pay it. I bought a 99% 1959 model 41 for $1000 knowing full well the seller bought it for between $600 and $700 a few days earlier. It was his good fortune, it doesn't affect the value of the gun (I was still happy).
 
gm272gs said:
I think you're talking smack about Capitalism, bub! :D
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Not really. I was just using the expression that a previous poster had used.

Of course, the day after I buy one on GB, someone will post how he bought the same thing for half the price from some old widow who just wanted to get it out of her husband's sock drawer. :)
 
Yeah. That would be me. I have gotten several this way. It pays to talk to old ladies. ;)
 
Years ago I came to the conclusion that when a dealer pulls out the Blue Book, I am about to get screwed. IMO, it is little more than a way for them to back up their ridiculously lowball offers.

Gunbroker asking prices are, for the most part, ridiculously inflated -- but check ACTUAL SALES, and you get a pretty fair idea of the overall market, even though actual values may be higher or lower for a particular gun in your reason.
 
Sentry77 said:
One final thought. Don't be concerned what the seller paid for the gun...if the price represents value, just pay it. I bought a 99% 1959 model 41 for $1000 knowing full well the seller bought it for between $600 and $700 a few days earlier. It was his good fortune, it doesn't affect the value of the gun (I was still happy).
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+1 to this idea,I have bought Gun's for twice what the seller orginally paid and was happy to do it.Some people can't get over the fact that he only paid xxxx so why should I let him make money off me.
 
I have my own way to establish what handgun is worth.

I use:

Most RECENT Blue Book , Gunbroker auctions that sold and forums.

I find that the most effective way (at least for me) to find out about a value of a handgun is to see what it would take to get one if I was looking for it.

For example:

I would really like to find a super clean S&W 4 four inch model 629. One of the last ones made rigth before the they put the firing pin in the frame and started MIM parts.

I want it to be in mint conditon . 100% factory original,hardly ever fired ,with perfect action and timing .(with or without the box). And I would pay extra if I got to shoot it first. :)

How much would I have to pay for it? How much effort will it take for me to find it , buy it , have it shipped to my FFL, etc.

How much is a gun like that worth ? You tell me ....:) 800.00? 1000.00? 1200.?

How many guns like I described are for sale? How many DO I SEE for sale?
 
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"How the heck do you even decide what something is worth? It's more like: It's what I want. It's in the stated condition. Do I have the money to buy it? Obviously, not a good investment strategy, but it doesn't seem like there is much choice. "

Investment strategy? I wouldn't count on that.You buy it because you like it,it gives you pleasure,and you have the bucks for it.That's about 90% of the proposition.Investment strategy is a distant last on the list.One shouldn't assume that the laws will accommodate relatively easy selling,and thus a good market forever,or that the 20 and 30 somethings of today will have the passion to eventually buy our passions when it comes time to take the dirt nap.
 
I been browsing for a new to me toy and everything seems to be between $750 to $2,500 on some s&w revolvers. I just seen another s&w k22 for $1,500. Our buying power is down the tubes.

Anytime you think the current prices are out of wack just go to an antique gun show. I seen the words gun show once and didn't see the word antique above it. At that time the average rifle was $4 to $5k? Like forget about it's
The only prices that I see lagging behind is some of the military guns. These guns just aren't getting there just do. Let's face it there is a lot of been there, done that history with them. These old war horses have been in battles making history for sure. I've seen prices on these surplus go up on certain models over night. I collected a few but jumped ship when they became no longer affordable. I wanted to look at some modern guns since the prices were close to the military stuff. The s&w caught my eye when I seen the history of Smith & Wesson on tales of the gun. I'm interested more in the history too. Even if I just purchase one I'd like to know the history on there development too. How they changed through the years.

My point is every time I change my direction in collecting a few different guns the prices seem to go out of sight. Once the cost of the older guns hit a point I feel I might as well but new guns. The history is neat but I can do the same thing with a new s&w as well as an older one. I can shoot it, show it to my friends and family too. I still enjoy them either way New or older. There seems to be changing trends too. Like the s&w m28 seems to become more sought after today. Over night that could change to the m27. The s&w m58 in 41mag seems to be more in the fore front too lately. It seems to be more popular now. We're probably more in touch with the changing trends now with the internet too. What wasn't popular in the gun rags years ago seems to become popular today. We here seem to be on the leading edge of the trends and seem to go with the flow if we chose to follow it. One trend now is the popularity of the 4" barreled revolvers. All of a sudden everyone prefers the 4" barrel lengths. I think the snubnose barrels are a close second. I read about what barrel length the gurus say here but I like the 4", 5", 5 1/2" 6", 6 1/2", 7 1/2", 8 3/8" & 10" barrels why limit yourself. I like then all. I have snubbed but the 5" thru 6 1/2" is my sweet spot for barrel lengths.
My point is even the longer barrel lengths are priced the same as the other high priced stuff too even though there not in demand.
Then comes the finish. I think stainless is the preferred finish, with blue next and nickel third. I prefer nickel finish while it's still being offered. Colt discontinued there nickel finishes. If we factor in the time between blue and nickel finishes on these older guns the nickel finishes seem to hold up better. But some abuse there guns too. Plus my wife took the ccw course and the instructor said the whiney gun shows up better to the bad guy when the good guy is holding it.

This is my overall view on gun prices, it's also the demand and what direction the new trend is headed in. I'm still a newbie looking in yet so I may see it in a different way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I love my new s&w N Frames too as much as I cherish the older s&w guns.
There still manufactured in the USA and there forged frames.
Keeping Americans working is number one to me.
 
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The other day I was told by a dealer that the current market on some types of guns was "soft". I darn near chocked on my dip of Skoal. His thought's were that right now most people are looking for "brass-barfin', bottom feedin', Tupperware block's" (thank you Jaymo) in the $300.00 range and therefor not buying/bidding on the more classic firearms. Since I had just finished paying for what I later found out to be an acceptable price on his wheel gun, I remained silent.

hardcase60
 
I buy on Gun Broker and pay top dollar for top quality and if that makes me a clown, honk my red nose. Money is useless laying around in a bank and I don't need to fret over squeezing the last nickel out of a deal. There are more important things in life than what you pay for things that make you happy.
 
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Todays Prices

In 1988 the pressures of raising a family forced me to sell of a 25 gun pistol collection. Mostly Smith Wessons from the mid to later seventies, a few colt 45's and two Lugers. Since last February I have been replacing the guns I sold one by one. The least I have paid it 3X the price of ones I sold back then. Some were quite a bit more! My favorites the N frames in the condition I seek are at a premium now. In fact they seem to be climbing rapidly especially the blued 6" mod 29's with presentation boxes. However the guns I sold years ago though I fired them were like new finding like quality today requires Gunbroker and paying enough to be high bidder.
 
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MN2944 said:
Obviously, not a good investment strategy, but it doesn't seem like there is much choice.
Click to expand...

I may get grilled for saying this on a S&W forum, but here it goes...

I see S&W revolvers or any revolver for that matter as a poor investment. At least compared to the semi autos. Like it or not the Glocks and other various plastic wonders with hi-cap magazines are going to be the guns with serious value in the future. The revolvers are my passion and hobby though and if they become valuable in my children's lifetime that's great. But I know if I was smart I would buy up every hi-cap autoloader I could get for a reasonable price along with magazines because in my lifetime I know that will prove to be a serious investment.
 
2ndAmendmentNut said:
I may get grilled for saying this on a S&W forum, but here it goes...

I see S&W revolvers or any revolver for that matter as a poor investment. At least compared to the semi autos. Like it or not the Glocks and other various plastic wonders with hi-cap magazines are going to be the guns with serious value in the future. The revolvers are my passion and hobby though and if they become valuable in my children's lifetime that's great. But I know if I was smart I would buy up every hi-cap autoloader I could get for a reasonable price along with magazines because in my lifetime I know that will prove to be a serious investment.
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Good luck if your tupperware Guns's even function in 25yrs.Plastic Guns's are built like everything in Today's society,buy,Use,break,throw away,repeat.It is only going to be a matter of time until people realize they are buying plastic junk when the could be buying all steel/Aluminum Guns for a few bucks more.
 
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05CarbonDRZ said:
Good luck if your tupperware Guns's even function in 25yrs.Plastic Guns's are built like everything in Today's society,buy,Use,break,throw away,repeat.It is only going to be a matter of time until people realize they are buying plastic junk when the could be buying all steel/Aluminum Guns for a few bucks more.
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Really??? Quite honestly one of the most inane statements ever posted. We are coming up on 30 years of Glock guns, and I am pretty sure the 1st gen guns still function if they haven't been abused.
And before you bash me, just search my user name and see what I own. I have one polymer gun, and M&P, the rest are blued steel revolvers and 3rd gen S&W's.
The truth is in the not too distant future, registered magnums, triple lock, and other classic S&W's will start to lose value as that generation of owners dies off. Just like model T's and A's in the old car hobby.
 
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