Book on the Model 1

[KFrame38]

Good day all,

I have been working on a reference book dedicated to the Model 1. I have been searching for and compiling information for the past three years to include it's production history and how many are left in the world. I hope this would be a useful tool to collectors. I have reached a point where I need the help of others who have a Model 1 or know of any that remain. I am looking for input as to the model number, barrel and cylinder stamp, overall condition, finish and distinguishing marks and last known location. This book will be updated on a regular basis as new information is compiled. If you wish to help please feel free to email me. Thank you.

 

[59dexta]

I have a model 1 2nd issue. It is in maybe fair condition, hinge is wobbly. Bought it at auction in Hatfield Pa about 10 years ago

 

[KFrame38]

Thank you 59dexta. Can you provide the serial number? Also, there will be a thanks section for everyone who contributed. If you'de like to be included what name would you like used?

 

[59dexta]

The serial # is 84568 i tried to post picture don't know if sucessful
There it is the rosewood grips are off i was taking picture of my second issue to compare to a "2nd issue single shot" a few months ago

 

[Watchdog]

Sounds like a worthwhile project. Hopefully it will increase the Smith & Wesson knowledge base.
Good luck with your book.

 

[KFrame38]

Thank you, I will add this information.

 

[Jtown]

Here is my Model 1 2nd issue, ser.# 115044. Hope it helps.
Walt

 

[KFrame38]

Thank you Jtown, I will add this to the book.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I sold this one about 10 years ago. First Second sn 40383.

 

[KFrame38]

Thank you Club Gun Fan.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Here is a copy of my original First Model broadsheet I have.

 

[NavySCPO]

Here's my Model 1, serial number 92294, which from my little amount of research I believe was made around 1866, sadly (for historical purposes) after the war I believe so likely not used there. I've included a few photos, Hope it helps.

 

[first-model]

Here's my Model 1, serial number 92294, which from my little amount of research I believe was made around 1866, sadly (for historical purposes) after the war I believe so likely not used there. I've included a few photos, Hope it helps.

According to my records your gun would have shipped from the factory in April or May of 1866. You'd need a factory letter to know for sure; my estimate assumes that they went out in chronological order (which we know wasn't always the case).

Mike

 

[NavySCPO]

Thanks Mike, appreciate the confirmation. She is the pride of my small collection. Love to see people's mouths drop open when you tell them it's a Model 1.

 

[KFrame38]

Thank you NavySPCO.

 

[sheppard]

Have you considered including the number 2 and number 1 1/2 in your book? Doing so would cover all the tip-up models.

 

[KFrame38]

Have you considered including the number 2 and number 1 1/2 in your book? Doing so would cover all the tip-up models.

Due to the number of Model 1's produced it would be a more manageable process and make for a more efficient reference to focused on these first. After this is completed I will be focusing on other variations.

 

[first-model]

Hey Agent Clown,
Have you documented and Mongrels? In the model 1? Here is a photo. See Roy Jinks Book Page 46 and read into the Mongrel for the 1 1/2? You can see by serial number that it was the last of the 2nd issue serial number range but has a unique birdshead iron frame? The grips are replacements at some point.

This is a Model 1, 3rd Issue. The 126xxx serial number dates it to early 1877. This gun is curious, but I'm not sure that I'd call it a transition model, since the 3rd Issue guns weren't transitioning to anything (they were discontinued around 1882). My guess is that someone at the factory found the old patent date roller that was used to imprint the 2nd Issue cylinders, and decided to have some fun.

The 3rd Issue serial numbers went into the 132,xxx range, and the last guns were shipped in 1882.

Mike

 

[mmaher94087]

If this revolver left the factory as a saleable product from Smith & Wesson then it should have matching assembly numbers on the left grip frame under the stocks, on the cylinder and on the rear of the barrel. If this was a "lunch box special" then anything goes. I have seen a 1st Model, 3rd Issue with the 'squared' or flat transition frame piece where the grip and frame meet. But, I'm a skeptic so I lean towards the lunch box special. A photo of the barrel to frame latch and the assembly numbers might allow me to sleep better as I thought I had ALL the 1st, 3rd variations.

 

[BMur]

Thanks Mike,
I think I'm going to try to reach out to Roy Jinks on this one. If he answers me I'll post.

 

[first-model]

If this revolver left the factory as a saleable product from Smith & Wesson then it should have matching assembly numbers on the left grip frame under the stocks, on the cylinder and on the rear of the barrel. If this was a "lunch box special" then anything goes. I have seen a 1st Model, 3rd Issue with the 'squared' or flat transition frame piece where the grip and frame meet. But, I'm a skeptic so I lean towards the lunch box special. A photo of the barrel to frame latch and the assembly numbers might allow me to sleep better as I thought I had ALL the 1st, 3rd variations.

I agree with Mike on this. As it stands I'm guessing that this is a "lunchbox special," which can still make it something of a historical curiosity. It could also have been assembled like this after-the-fact, although I doubt that someone would have gone to the trouble to put the roll mark on the cylinder like that. That looks like a factory improvisation to me.

Mike

 

[first-model]

Mike and Mike,
I hear what you guys are saying. I hope that you will have an open mind and hear what I am saying about this unusual Smith & Wesson.
First? The serial number just happens to fall right at the end of the 1st model 2nd issue? Why is that? It could have been from 11,000 to 126,000 and it would be for sure a lunchbox special but not "right" after the end of the model 1 2nd issue.... 43 digits to be exact.
Second? The cylinder has what appears to me? to be a machined over patent stamp? In other words it was a non fluted stamped cylinder and then it was machined with flutes. I don't agree that it was fluted then stamped. That would be kind of ridiculous don't you think? This also suggests they were using up left over parts from the 2nd issue revolvers. The serial number supports this position.
Third? Look closely at the top of the frame at the hinge? That is some amazing work in my opinion. There is an insert on the left side that is pinned to the frame to tighten the fit of the barrel. It steps also. It's not just cut out. You can plainly see the vertical line and if you look closely the steps like a zig zag on top. It's a "Professionally machined" and pinned addition to that frame.
If this is a lunchbox special than this person was an amazing machinist! that enjoyed wasting his time with difficult machining work to manufacture a put together revolver.
Oh, and there is no way! someone did this kind of frame to barrel fitting on their work bench in the basement! LOL.

I'm sending in for a factory letter.

I hear you and I'm certainly open to any possibility. If you're right, then you've got quite a Model 1 rarity; possibly a one-of-a-kind.

The reason I was skeptical was because it's clearly a third issue frame, and the 126xxx serial number doesn't quite put it at the end of the third issue production run (they went up to 132xxx-ish). I was assuming that this gun was made in the era of third issue guns, and that serial number would put it in the range of 1877.

Now, it's entirely possible that someone found some old 2nd Issue barrels and cylinders and did a limited run with those (and machining the flutes into the 2nd Issue cylinder would explain the patent dates).

I agree that a letter would be good here, although it may only turn up that the gun went to Storrs like most of the rest of them. Send pictures as well and see if that shakes anything out of Roy's brain.

Mike

 

[DrOlds]

2nd issue

Serial 28693 best I can tell

On the cylinder I have made out a stamp showing July 5 1859, followed immediately by something illegible and 8 1860.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Here's my Second Issue Model 1. Serial is 98777. Roy says it went out the S&W door in August, 1866. I got it from a collector in El Paso, Texas a number of years ago.

John

 

[mmaher94087]

Apologies to Agent Clown for the thread drift. As to the 1st, 3rd 'mongrel'; I believe a 2nd Issue barrel has been put on a 3rd Issue frame. The C3 is the assembly number and should match the left side of the frame, under the grips; the cylinder and the barrel. A 2nd Issue barrel will fit a 3rd Issue frame; .384" and .319" respectfully.

Incidentally, Patbar has assembly numbers on his Transition (mongrel). In his case the numbers are actually "just letters".

I, too, will be interested in the information contained in the letter. Sendphotos.

 

[first-model]

Morning Mike,
Check out the other thread " Found a Model 1"? I've been communicating with a guy in France ( Patbar). He actually has a Model 1 1/2 mongrel in his collection . He just now posted that it does not have matching assembly numbers just letters on the barrel. No assembly numbers. His however does fall in the 28,000 serial number range that would be correct for the mongrel . I am mailing out my factory letter request today and I will post what Roy says about it . I'm starting to believe that they were sent and/or sold in parts to other large firms and assembled at those locations? Perhaps the frames were numbered prior to being shipped? The theory is that these were the last parts leftover from the Model 1 2nd issue ( Barrels and cylinders) and the factory decided not to waste them so they put them on very early serial numbered 3rd issue frames to use up the parts. That's exactly what they did with the 1 1/2 Model that Mr Jinks says the factory called The Mongrel. But who? Put them together?? Major Distributors at that time had in house machinists! They could have assembled them and sold them?

It's possible, but I'm defaulting to Occam's Razor and assuming that it was assembled in-house from leftover parts. The frame is late production (circa 1877) based on the serial number, so my guess would be that someone found some old barrels and cylinders around that time and assembled a batch of mongrels. Or it was a lunchbox special.

I don't know how long Smith & Wesson officially kept parts around to repair Model 1, 2nd Issues, but it's also possible that these were old spare parts barrels that they decided to recycle into production guns.

The distributors had their hands full with coordinating shipments and payments and wouldn't have wanted to meddle with assembling guns from spurious parts.

That said, anything is possible.

Mike

 

[BMur]

Ahh,
It finally hit me Mike. You are getting the 1877 manufactured date by plugging in the serial number to the later 3rd issue frame? If that were true this could not be a Mongrel!
Please take another look at the frame of my suspect Mongrel? Notice at the top of the grips you see a " Flat" taper that matches the earlier 2nd issue frame??? That's what I'm talking about! The 3rd issue frame has a round taper??? This serial number is a continued serial number from the bitter end of the 2nd issue in the year 1868! Not 1877! You get what I'm saying? If this was an 1877 frame it "must" have the round taper on top of the grip! This one does not! It's an earlier specially made iron frame that dates to 1868! That's what I'm guessing anyway.

 

[BMur]

See what I'm talking about? The round iron taper vs the unique flat iron taper in the Mongrel frame?

 

[first-model]

Ahh,
It finally hit me Mike. You are getting the 1877 manufactured date by plugging in the serial number to the later 3rd issue frame? If that were true this could not be a Mongrel!
Please take another look at the frame of my suspect Mongrel? Notice at the top of the grips you see a " Flat" taper that matches the earlier 2nd issue frame??? That's what I'm talking about! The 3rd issue frame has a round taper??? This serial number is a continued serial number from the bitter end of the 2nd issue in the year 1868! Not 1877! You get what I'm saying? If this was an 1877 frame it "must" have the round taper on top of the grip! This one does not! It's an earlier specially made iron frame that dates to 1868! That's what I'm guessing anyway.

I see what you mean. The first ~9500 of the third issue guns also had that square topped frame, which suggests that the 126xxx serial number doesn't quite line up with this frame.

Yes, the more I think about this, the more I'm scratching my head.

Mike

 

[first-model]

Yes, and now it makes sense why you're wondering if this was serial numbered after the 1-2's (instead of the 1-3's), if this was some sort of mongrel gun run.

The factory letter will be very interesting on this one, if it's even on the books!

Mike