Bore size 38 S&W?

[H Richard]

SaxonPig, you have email.

 

[nsajorden]

Hi H. Richard,
Dave here again with a name and address for you.
Moyer Cast Bullets
Madisonburg Pike
Madisonburg Pa.16852
814-349-5410
$29.99/500 plus shiping/PA.Taxes
He makes all of my bullets for me. He makes 38S&W in 125-200grs. @0.360 diam. You can tell him what diameter you want and he will make them for you. Also what hardness you would like.
Again I use 38 Long Colt Brass.(STAR LINE)
I had RCBS cut my sizing die to match my cylinder. The brass last forever.
Have a great day......DAVE...............

 

[H Richard]

Thanks, I think I'll try some of the .358 cast 158 gr. that I use for my .38 Spec. and see how they work and if they don't I may try these. I appreciate the information.

 

[Calaveras Slim]

Originally posted by H Richard:
I have a recently acquired pre-victory, and the cylinder had been bored to accept 38 Specials. Since the 38 S&W chamber is about 9/1000 larger in diameter than the 38 Special, the cases bulge out with even light loads. When I fire 38 S&W loads the forward edge of the newly cut 38 special chamber strips lead off the 38 S&W bullet. The piece is nice enough (5")Australian return that I want it to shoot properly. Bore is near mint. Is the bore size of a 38 S&W larger that a 38 Special? The only reloading manual I have that listed 38 S&W was an old Speer, and that showed the bullet size as .360 rather than .357. If the bore is .003 larger, I would plan to replace the cylinder with a .38 S&W cylinder, but if it is .357 I would replace the cylinder with a .38 Special cylinder.

I guess I could "slug" the barrel and see, just don't have any soft lead bullets on hand to do it with, and if it is larger, the slug may not fill the groves to give an accurate reading.

If you reload the 38 S&W, which I do, then Midway sells Magtech bullets, 158gr RN that are hollow based bullets. Sized to 358, they will bump up to fit your 361 diameter bore. I have the S&W Regulation Police with a 4" barrel in 38 S&W and these shoot great for me.

 

[arfmel]

Midway and Natchez both sell 38 S&W ammunition from Magtech reasonably, as well. Good source of brass for your future handloading efforts.

 

[Texas Star]

For the record, I asked Roy Jinks for the bore diameter specs for both .38 Special and .38 S&W some years ago. I knew that some British shooters had complained of stuck jacketed bullets in the bores of S&W .38/200 service revolvers.

I thought that perhaps S&W had just chambered the cylinders for the S&W regular ctg., and shipped guns with bores at .38 Special diameter.

He said that a Feb. 18, 1942 bore spec for UNRIFLED .38 S&W bores was .350-.3512. That is tight. After rifling, the GROOVES were at .3595-.3612. Thus, a .360 lead bullet should do very well in a .38 S&W barrel.

I presume that underloaded service ammo with jacketed bullets accounted for the occasional stuck bullets in the British issue guns.

Webley and Enfield Arsenal probably have "looser" bores in .38, and the rifling lands may also be more narrow, lessening any tendency for bullets to stick. With the lower friction of lead bullets and a normal powder charge, I doubt if bullets sticking in the barrel will be an issue in .38/200 guns.

Because of the many old topbreak American guns in this caliber being of marginal safety, I think that modern .38 S&W ammo is loaded on the light side.

The careful handloader can certainly work up better loads in the British guns and in the modern S&W guns in that chambering.

Colt also made Commando (wartime Official Police) guns in .38/200, but I do not have access to their bore specs. I have heard of no trouble with them, and of course, Colts are actually stronger than equivalent S&W's.

Those guns got around. I read a book by a British officer fighting Japs in Burma. His weapons were a Colt .38 revolver and a Thompson gun.


T-Star

 

[H Richard]

I have used the Magtech 146 gr load. I also have a .38 Regulation Police, 4" and it shoots them great, much better than the K frame. I plan to try some 200 gr LRN from Beartooth bullets over 2.4 gr Unique. Have dies coming.

 

[lateaugust2]

Heree's a poser:

Anyone have ideas/advice/suggestions on replacing a shot out 4" .38 Special barrel with a 5" .38 "S&W"?
Haven't run into any decent 5" .38 spl bbls… but I've read that lead .357 bullets will "bump-up" or expand when fired filling the gap in the lands and producing acceptable accuracy.

 

[DWalt]

There is a tendency to greatly overstate the significance of the bullet diameter of the .38 S&W vs. that of the .38 Special. Most will be unable to see any difference in the grouping performance using the typical .357-.358 .38 Special lead bullet in reloaded .38 S&W ammunition fired in a .38 S&W revolver. For a very long time I used 125 grain .358 lead bullets for loading .38 S&W, and they worked fine. I have seen reloading manuals (I think Speer) which recommend using .357 bullets for .38 S&W reloads. Also note that the minimum SAAMI lead bullet diameter spec for the .38 S&W is .355". If you want to use a .360-.361 bullet, Missouri Bullet Company sells them. But if you have any .38 Special lead bullets you can load, try them first.

I once came across a large number of very old loose .38 S&W cartridges cheaply, and I had a high rate of misfires. I pulled the bullets from the dud rounds to salvage the components, and guess what I found? The bullet diameters measured to be .357-.358.

BTW, I have always loaded .38 S&W using .38 Super dies. It works fine.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum, lateaugust2.

I don't think I have ever seen a shot-out S&W .38 special barrel. I have seen many shot-out .45 1917 barrels, which have very shallow rifling. Are you sure it just isn't leaded up really bad? Can you post pictures of the bore?

 

[reddog81]

A new thread would probably get better responses.

The 4" barrel was the standard for .38 Special. Gunpartscorp.com has both the .38 Special and .38 S&W barrels for sale in their appropriate lengths.

However, lik Muley Gil mentioned I'd be surprised to find a shot out .38 Special barrel. Unless someone was loading up some corrosive ammo and not cleaning afterwards, you'd have to do some serious shooting to wear out a barrel.

 

[adowns]

I had a similar gun - British victory model with cylinder holes reamed out to accept 38 specials. It shot 38 specials ok except for the bulged cases. I replaced the original cylinder with a 38 special cylinder and it still shoots fine and cases extract easily now. The cylinder I used was from a later revolver. I used the extractor parts from the original cylinder.

There are lots of "parts kits" available now as police departments specify that their trade in guns be cut up. If you can find a cylinder from a cut-up 38 special victory you are in business.

Here's a parts kit: Smith & Wesson Victory parts kit - Gun Parts Kits at GunBroker.com : 796981337

 

[kenjen]

I buy my bullets from Mattsbullets.com they only sell 200 and 150 gr. In 361 di. Also would the bbl. rifling for the British 38/200 be the same as for the 158 gr. Bbl?

 

[schutzen-jager]

never had a problem with mine stripping lead off lead bullets [ timing issue , not chamber issue ? ] - try using hollow base .38 special wad cutters or any soft cast bullets - check this link
Converted Victory... Worth It?

 

[mikepriwer]

Richard

As to the difficulty in removing the cylinder assembly from the frame, the groove that the front side-plate screw sets into may be slightly upset. Maybe someone put the wrong screw in it. Otherwise it should slide out.

You might remove the front side plate screw, and then put a liberal amount of penetrating oil in the hole, and then start moving the cylinder up and down, and pulling it forward. Keep putting more lubricant in the hole, and keep moving it. It will come out, at some point. Then you'll be able to see where the surface damage is.

Regards, Mike

 

[merl67]

I load my own cast 158 grn .357 dia. semiwadcutters. I cannot tell the difference between them and factory 38S&W ammo as far as accuracy goes in my BSR or my Terrier.

 

[Sgt Neutron]

Graf's has the Missouri Bullet Company 145 gr. .361" LRN bullets. I've used them , and they work well. $40 per 500.

 

[glowe]

Missouri bullets is the way to go. Missouri Bullet Company they are open, have stock, good prices, and proper bullets for original 38 S&W, 145 grain RN.

You can shoot .357s if you want, but unless you have the right bullet, you will not have anything to compare accuracy with. Lots of people shoot 357 and I have compared accuracy in all my 38 S&Ws. Not one of them shot the small bullets as well as the .361" bullet.

I went through that process many years ago and first important issue is land diameter in a 38 S&W. While barrels from 38 SA spur triggers, to 38 DAs, to 38 Perfected, to 38 HEs vary slightly, the average land dimension was .355 to .356". That is just not enough to grab a bullet. The cylinder throat diameter in 38 S&Ws is .361 - .362", so the .357 bullet rattled through the throat and can end up with a shaved bullet and leading when it hits the barrel slightly mis-aligned. The case for a 38 Special lays in the bottom of the cylinder, also affecting accuracy when fired. Lastly, there is a loss of velocity with solid base bullets, since gases can escape around the bullet through the grooves. None of those issues help.

Lots of people just want to go out and shoot the gun, so if it has been re-chambered for 38 Special, no harm done. If one wants to recreate the original ammunition for this caliber, use the right components and accuracy will be improved. One caveat is that you can use cut down 38 Special cases or in the case of lengthened chambers, full length. After shooting the first time, the brass will be re-sized to seal in the chamber of the 38 S&W. Get a $25 set of 38S&W dies and you are set to go. Problem with using 38 Special dies is that they will resize the brass down to 38 Special dimensions if the case even fits into the mouth of some die sets? Also, the lead will be slightly downsized when forcing it into the .357 case and resized even more when crimping the bullet and finishing the case, if the 38 Special dies even can be set that low.

Why take the time and effort to produce something that is poor quality, results in potentially poor accuracy, and not as originally intended and designed?

 

[BearBio]

I got acceptable accuracy in my 38 S & W Victory and a "Lemon squeezer" using 146 hollow based lead bullets. The hollow base expands enough to grip the rifling==IF you can find them. Keep velocities down!

Also, 200 gr are supposed to be pretty effective defense loads!

 

[Targets Guy]

I never knew much about this issue until I bought a .38 M&P which shipped in 12/41 off of Gunbroker. It was advertised as a .38 special and had a 4" barrel. I took it to the range and the fun began. During the practice loadings I noticed the rounds just fell out of the cylinder when I used the extractor; that had never happened before. Then during firing the gun froze up after about three rounds and I almost needed a hammer to get the rounds out.

That is when I learned about how folks modified .38SW into .38 Specials. I tried firing .38SW in the gun; they worked much better in the cylinder but lead was being shaved at the forcing cone and I did not want that. I found a .38SW Victory barrel, had it chromed to match the gun and the gun worked liked a charm.

Later discovered the gun shipped as a 5", .38SW, BSR. It is back to that once again. I have no issue with Magtech .38SW rounds or PPU rounds. Pretty good shooting gun.

That round in the 8 ring was the first firing after the barrel change. I had my eyes closed and head down.