Have any recommendations for dedicated copper solvent? All I use is Hoppes #9. I share the same opinion with you, the snake doesn't completely clean everything but my gun shoots well nonetheless. I bought rods & brushes weeks ago and finally used them the other day. Was kind of afraid the brushes would screw up the rifling though, it was a tight fit the first time. I use the snake first then run the brush & patches until it's not dirty anymore.
Bore Snake vs. a Traditional Cleaning
- Thread starter Coots
- Start date
Have any recommendations for dedicated copper solvent? All I use is Hoppes #9. I share the same opinion with you, the snake doesn't completely clean everything but my gun shoots well nonetheless. I bought rods & brushes weeks ago and finally used them the other day. Was kind of afraid the brushes would screw up the rifling though, it was a tight fit the first time. I use the snake first then run the brush & patches until it's not dirty anymore.
Spectre_USA
Member
+1
Also, it's a good time to sit back with the shooting party, crack a
cold one, and swap war stories.
Good times, good times...
Cruiser RN
Member
In cleaning my guns I use both the Bore Snake and a few passes with the rod and cleaning patches with Breakthrough and Militec.I clean my guns after every use because a clean firearm will be less likely to have problems and it makes it a matter of practice to give the gun a good visual inspection after each use to address small problems before they become big ones.One time after using my CS9 I noticed that a part was broken off when I cleaned the gun.It went back to S+W and the trigger relief spring was replaced without problem.......Peace Out and God Bless...Mike
CPTBeaker
Member
- Cleaned spotless after every use. Weapons never went into the arms room dirty, especially an M16/M4, which is notoriously failure prone without proper cleaning (not a result of a dirty bore, but a dirty gas system).
- My favorite uncle...pretty much the same thing. Clean it after you use it and don't put it away dirty.
The main harm of over cleaning a barrel on any rifle would be the risk of damaging the barrel crown, which would have an adverse effect on accuracy. The risk of under cleaning would be corrosion or pitting of the bore. How long does it take to corrode or get pits in your bore?...who knows, but I'm not going to test it out on my guns.
I've seen a fair number of used guns at gun shops with pitted bores and I can only assume it was from under cleaning...
stickbug1
Member
There is a difference in the need for cleaning between a centerfire rifle shooting jacketed bullets and a .22LR shooting lead bullets. I keep the rest of my 22's nice and clean everytime I shoot them but leave the bores alone and accuracy does not suffer.
^This is reason enough to clean everytime. Check for potential problems, clean it while you're there.
Hoppes Elite; Hoppes Copper Terminator System probably the quickest and easiest.
Hoppe's 9 - Elite Copper Terminator
Shooters Choice and other ammonia based solvents are OK.
Maximumbob54
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I think of using a Bore Snake / Viper the same way I think of trying to wash myself using the sink instead of taking a shower. You can get mostly clean but it isn’t a real clean. Not running a white patch through the barrel to check for residue, only running the Bore Snake through once or twice, not using a proper solvent and relying on a CLP type product on the back end of the Bore Snake isn’t going to blow up your gun. And I don’t think most of us can shoot to a level that you would see what a perfectly cleaned barrel can do vs. a slightly fouled barrel. I think the heart of this is more an issue of most people’s desire to be able to put in the least amount of effort and achieve a barely passable grade C type answer to any chore they come across. The Bore Snake offers a path of least resistance to saying you cleaned your gun. I use them at the range to wipe the barrel down before I leave but then the minute I get home a full cleaning occurs. That way there is no chance for corrosive primers, moisture buildup, or anything else detrimental to happen. A far more interesting cleaning system is the Otis kits that come with a flexible wire that you can put brushes or patches on the end. And the wire is coated so no risk of damaging a bore. They all fit into these tiny little pouch bags. They seem much closer to being a true cleaning rod replacement item than any Bore Snake product ever will.
Ahh, very nice. Looks like I'm keeping it "hoppes".
When would it be appropriate to use it? every 4 cleanings or sooner?
We use Ed's Red Plus for copper. It uses the regular ed's red formula plus some additions, we use the formula found on the internet:
"Ed’s Red
by Ed Harris
simple recepie: Ed's Red (home made): Equal parts of Mineral Spirits, Acetone, Kerosene, and Automatic Transmission Fluid.
CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits
CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS:
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!
Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the otherainer to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix. Label and safety warnings follow:
FIREARM BORE CLEANER
CAUTION: FLAMMABLE MIXTURE -- HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED -- KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
Contents: petroleum distillates, surfactants, organometallic antioxidants and acetone.
1. Flammable mixture, keep away from heat, sparks or flame.
2. FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.
3. Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with itsonsistent with its labeling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.
INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE:
1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.
2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5" strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.
3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled service rifles, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.
4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed's Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for 1 year under average atmospheric conditions.
5. If lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years, even in a humid environment. (For longer storage use Lee Liquid Alox or Cosmolene). "ER" will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.
6. Wipe spilled Ed's Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed's Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes.
7. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed's Red if the bore is cleaned as described.
8. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed's Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and areand shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a flush with Ed's Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the corrosive residue out.
This "Recipe" has been placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all current revisions, instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author."
"Eds Red Plus
This variation on the Ed's Red formula gives it a copper removing ability similar to the commercial bore cleaner Marksman's Choice MC-7. You will need:
11 ounces of basic Ed's Red
2 ounces of 10%-20% industrial strength ammonia
2 ounces of Rustlick WS-11 cutting oil or suitable alternative
1 ounce of Murphy's Oil Soap
Mix the oil soap and ammonia in a separate container. In a suitable 1 pint container containing 11 ounces of Ed's Red, add the cutting oil and mix together. Then add the oil soap/ammonia mixture to Ed's Red/ cutting oil and shake the container to mix the ingredients. You will end up with a pink opaque liquid that for the most part remains in solution, but some components may settle out over an extended period. It is always best to shake well before using. The resulting solution will remove mild copper deposits in bores if allowed to work about 15-20 minutes.
Water soluble cutting oils and rust inhibitors can be obtained online from MSC Industrial Supply Co. or locally from your industrial supplier. NAPA auto stores carry a soluble oil listed as NAPA Soluble Cutting and Grinding Oil," part number SL SL2512. Metal screw top containers can be obtained from WASCO -- Wildlife Artist Supply Company under | Products | Molding and Casting | Containers, Cups and Tools."
Works great for copper removal. But we use a lot of it because we test a lot of weapons. So you might need to re-size the quantities some for your use. Like it says, it removes mild copper deposits in bores if allowed to work about 15-20 minutes, but if you let it work longer you can get rid of any heavy copper stuff too. We have a vat, we dump the parts in and go to lunch and then take them out later and copper comes right off and clean as can be.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
I'm a retired Infantry and also an M2/M3 Master Gunner. As a young NCO, I was also a company armorer. Here's what I learned, for what it's worth.
Hoppe's was one used by the military, and it's a great solvent, but that's a single use event and must be followed up by oil or some kind of protectant to keep off the moisture which leads to rust. I love Hoppe's #9, always have, even my mother loves the smell of it. However, you must follow it up. After years of specialized cleaners, lubricants and protectants, the military adopted the CLP or what we call "Break Free", which is great for all round use. Using all the specialties is better, but time-consuming and costly, which is why the military went with CLP. In the Army, when you clean any small arms, it's done over a three day period, as the carbon will continue to "bleed". On the third day, a light coat of CLP was applied, for moisture and rust prevention. This is how you should clean your firearms. The "snake" is a good temporary cleaning tool, but should be followed up with a real cleaning. I've used mine and then applied a traditional cleaning that brought out much more than I expected. As far as M-16s go, the gas system is actually very efficient, what causes them to become prone to malfunctions is poor cleaning techniques on the bolt, carrier, key, over lubing of the action during functioning, improper disassembly and reassembling and use of abrasives on the non-steel parts. The gas system on an M-16 is actually almost trouble free.
Use your snake, but clean your weapon as you always have, and you will improve your weapons longevity, but always remember to put a light coat of oil or protectant on the inside, and outside.
Citoriplus
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I'm probably going to catch hell for this but I guess I have to agree with you.
Over cleaning of bores, especially .22 rimfire barrels using rods is probably the number one reason barrels go bad long before they should.
Unless your shooting an absurdly high number of rounds every week the odds are fairly good that a well made .22 rimfire barrel will probably outlive you with little or no cleaning at all.
But keep rubbing soft aluminum, brass and nylon rods that collect and hold abrasive grit on them against the rifling and you are going to be grinding the sharp edges off the rifling a lot faster than soft lead bullets ever will.
I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't clean your barrel, some of the dirtier ammo almost demands it. The better brands on the other hand are almost self cleaning as far as the barrel is concerned.
So a little bit of restraint when it comes to cleaning bores isn't going to do any harm and may even keep it shooting straight longer than a fetish for cleanliness will.
I have several .22's that I have only cleaned (the bore) once or twice in more than 40 years and they all shoot just as good as, and in a couple of cases better than, they did the day I bought them.
I'm just saying you shouldn't go crazy cleaning everything, actions, yes by all means clean the hell out of semi-auto actions. Just go easy on the barrels bore.
rodell
Member
Every session ends with cleaning. I have started to put the WipeOut foam in when I leave the range and clean it out when I get home. That gives me a headstart.
Back on topic, I've never found the boresnakes to get the bore as clean as I want or can get with the brush/patch/repeat method. I like them, though, but they are just another tool in the box. They are handy out on a hunt, too.
crashoverrideplik
Member
I recently bought one for use on the .22's. My Walther P-22 seems to brass up more than any other of my .22's if I don't use CCI Mini Mags. Anyway, it's a nice product and I've bought more of them for the rest of the calibers that I have since it cuts my clean time down. Walmart is carrying them now and it's significantly cheaper than going to like Cabellas, etc.
Dude that is way too much work to be posting on a thread for people who are all ready looking for short cuts like the bore snake!!
By the way, the bore snake is a fantastic product and I have one for all my firearms. You still have to clean your gun though!
TwistedCreations
Member
Foxtrot has some great knowledge. But I have noticed that he does like to write books from time to time
I was adressing the question from Jav where he asked:
I was not addressing the boresnake thing. Its not too much to save someone the time of searching for it, and in its reply context.
Had I been addressing the boresnake thing I would have said something like "a boresnake is great, just make sure your wife does not strangle you with it for spending too much on the gun."
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