Brazilian contract 1917 - Heat treated?

[bubbajoe45]

I have a 1937 Brazilian contract 1917 marked with small S&W logo on left side, re-importer stamp "IA CO SAC CA", lanyard ring, flat top strap, and square notch rear sight (Serial 203,xxx). I recall reading years ago here on the forum that heat treatment improved in the early twenties (over what the Triple Locks received). This got me thinking that these 1917s were WW1 frames that were returned to the factory and later re-purposed. Was there any further heat treatment done to those frames? or were they already state of the art up through the mid-30s?

I did search for any mention of heat treatment in relation to 1917s, but came up empty.

 

[alwslate]

I believe heat treating was only done to revolver cylinders, not frames. According to Brian Pearce in his articles on reloading the .45 ACP and Auto Rim the original 1917 cylinders were strong enough for +P loads of 23,000 PSI. The same as more modern .45 revolvers.

 

[Alk8944]

bubbajoe45: "This got me thinking that these 1917s were WW1 frames that were returned to the factory and later re-purposed."

The excess 1917 frames never left the S&W factory. They were bought back from the Army and finished as various models, particularly the 2nd Model and 3rd Model .44 Hand Ejectors. There must have been a lot of them as S&W was still using those frames clear into the 1930s.

The guns that were built with the revised heat treatment were K Frame .38 revolvers built after 1918. There was never a need to revise the heat treatment of the 1917 frames.

 

[SlamFire]

I have one of those Brazilian's, and I am going to say the bottom line is, shoot only ball equivalent or less loads. The original 1910 cartridges, used in the 1910 tests, the load was a 230 FMJ with 5.0 grains Bullseye for a desired velocity of 800 fps. Later there was a plus or minus 20 fps tolerance, but the mean was 800 fps.

Do not try any "Elmer Keith" loads in these old revolvers, you will beat the thing up. May knock it out of time, may do something worse.

I tested 250 grain loads in my M1917 and found that for lead bullets, I needed the 0.454 diameter bullets or the groups were awful. These older S&W's have big chamber mouths. While the M1917 is a solid frame, and that makes it stronger than my Webley, I decided to standardize on a load that does not stretch the top strap of the Webley. Which is a 255 LSWC and 3.5 grains Bullseye. This is a very mild load, shoots well.


M1917 S&W Brazilian Export 5" Barrel

250 LRN (.454) 4.5 grs Bullseye thrown, R-P AR cases, CCI300 primers
20-Jan-02 T = 44°F

Ave Vel = 754 fps
Std Dev = 10
ES = 39.5
Low= 744
High= 783
Number rds=14
Mild recoil, aimpt 5 OC, accurate

 

[Jack Flash]

From my notes, the shipping date for your revolver should be 1938. This information came from a letter written by Roy Jinks.

First Group of Brazilian M1917s serial numbers, 1938:
181,983 to 207,043

From Mr. Jinks' book, these were shipped February - October, 1938.

The square notch rear sight also verifies it is not a WWI frame.

 

[StrawHat]

The cylinder of the Model 1917 was required to be heat treated by the Army specifications. (The rifling was also specified which is why it is 6 groove instead of the traditional 5 groove.). I am not aware of any heat treatment of the frames

As mentioned by Jack Flash, the odds are greatly in favor of your revolver being in the first batch of revolvers sent to Brazil to satisfy the contract. After the war was over, S&W built the remaining portion of the contract with "found" parts.

Kevin

 

[Jack Flash]

I forgot to add that if it is in good shooting condition, I would not hesitate to shoot factory .45 ACP or equivalent handloads in it.

The revolvers in the First Group (1938) went to war in Italy in WW2. Some were subjected to the harsh environment of combat and extremely poor maintenance/shipping/storage. It may be prudent not to shoot one of those.

 

[Hondo44]

All S&W cylinders were heat treated after 1920. In 1945 S&W changed to improved steel and only magnum cartridge cylinders were heat treated.

I have a vague recollection that yokes were heat treated but not frames and don't know when.