Breyer: "Founding Fathers Would Have Allowed Restrictions on Guns"

OK, I agree and am likely the most Pro 2nd of all those here.


Sir,
with all due respect to you and your right to free speech, considering the company you are in here, this statement is arrogant to say the least, and from reading your posts here, it doesn't appear to be an accurate statement either.

While the average private citizen may not need a rocket launcher or cruise missle, their right to own one should never be questioned or infringed as long as they haven't broken any laws that would forfeit such rights.

Anytime the governemnt can decide who gets what, and when, and whenever they (government) feel like it because times are different now than when the constitution was written, we have started down that long slippery slope to total government control that early settlers came here in the first place to get away from.

Times may be different in that we have advanced technologically, but the underlying spirit of the 2A has never changed. We the people must always remain in control of our own destiny, and the government must never be allowed to gain total control again.


LOBO-

I salute you once again for your well stated and accurate post.
 
Personal responsibility, and consequences, are an integral and often unmentioned part of all this. Always has been and should continue. Good thing most people are basically responsible mature adults who might act like a jerk or be rude occasionally - but they do not go around robbing, attacking, or killing others. In general, I believe our average person is a good citizen type who spends their time paying bills, raising a family, and enjoying some kind of legal recreation.

Now, I definitely don't want to cause any nuclear explosions here, but food for thought:

Remember the wooden sailing ships, personally owned and outfitted with cannons to protect against pirates. Traveled the seas delivering their cargo. It has been done, although it is not nearly as common today....

A local example on land is Sutter's Fort in Sacramento Ca. John Sutter's land is where gold was discovered, and the 1849 Gold Rush began. His land was basically stolen by gold miners, and he died a pauper.

What is left of his fort is now a State Park. Here is a pic of one of his cannons, still on display. John Sutter owned several, and was too busy with everyday business to bother with killing or robbing others. Again, an everyday guy like most other folks, who are proven responsible people.

We also have Folsom Prison nearby, both the original "Old Folsom" and the newer adjacent prison. Both full of bad people - where bad people should be. These are a relatively small percentage of our population and not the everyday good person I talk about above.

ef9c1fe6.jpg


Just something that shows how the vast majority of people really are not a problem, and absolutely better than convicted violent felons - who voluntarily chose the violent lifestyle.
 
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Sir,
with all due respect to you and your right to free speech, considering the company you are in here, this statement is arrogant to say the least, and from reading your posts here, it doesn't appear to be an accurate statement either.

While the average private citizen may not need a rocket launcher or cruise missle, their right to own one should never be questioned or infringed as long as they haven't broken any laws that would forfeit such rights.

+1 Tim......................

Oldman45, can you prove your allegation, that YOU are the most pro 2nd?
 
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Sir,
with all due respect to you and your right to free speech, considering the company you are in here, this statement is arrogant to say the least, and from reading your posts here, it doesn't appear to be an accurate statement either.

While the average private citizen may not need a rocket launcher or cruise missle, their right to own one should never be questioned or infringed as long as they haven't broken any laws that would forfeit such rights.

Anytime the governemnt can decide who gets what, and when, and whenever they (government) feel like it because times are different now than when the constitution was written, we have started down that long slippery slope to total government control that early settlers came here in the first place to get away from.

Times may be different in that we have advanced technologically, but the underlying spirit of the 2A has never changed. We the people must always remain in control of our own destiny, and the government must never be allowed to gain total control again.


LOBO-

I salute you once again for your well stated and accurate post.

PM sent regarding post.

Yes my statement may appear arrogant but it is not meant to be such but I stand by it.
 
PM sent regarding post.

Yes my statement may appear arrogant but it is not meant to be such but I stand by it.


Sir,
I received your pm, and I can and do appreciate your work in the pro 2A field for so long.

However, I do not see it as being any more pro 2A than anyone else here. You have been fortunate in your career to have had opportunites to speak in places that most of us never will. My career never afforded me those opportunities, but I speak out wherever, and whenever I get a chance in favor of the 2A.

In my side job as a MA instructor, I teach pro 2A beliefs, and how they apply to our training, openly to students both old and (especially) young, in spite of the fact that I knew many of the parents sitting there were opposed to my way of thinking. You could say it put my job at risk, but I don't care. I believe what I believe, and rather strongly I might add. I am a lifelong hunter/shooter, and gun owner/collector myself. That in no way qualifies me as being more pro 2A than anyone else here.

I'll stand by my statement in my previous post too. It doesn't mean I don't respect you though. I just think that it was a rather outrageous comment to make on a board full of pro 2A people.

I do want to thank you for your service as an LEO, and I want to do it publicly, because I feel too often those in LE are overlooked or get a bad rap.

Merry Christmas to all!!
 
There is a vast difference in opinions, beliefs and reality.

Many believe because they own guns, they are Pro 2nd. Not true.

If that were the case, owning an oven would make one a chef or owning a pen and paper would make one an author.

There are several people that own guns, collect guns or even shoot guns. Reality shows us that owning a lot of guns does not even make us a honest person. When perps are arrested with guns, they generally have guns that are legal but illegal for them to be in possesion of or else they have guns that are both illegal (sawed off, filed serial numbers etc) and illegal for the perp to own (convicted felon, firearm free zone, etc). Still, there are those that will argue the 2nd covers their right to own those guns and it does not.

The Second Amendment covers much more than just the Right to Keep & Bear Arms. There are limitations to keeping and bearing arms that are in the Federal Law.

I will personally argue for a person to be able to own and carry a firearm in any court in the country unless there is a problem in them doing such. I feel we are protected against registration and having to get permits to carry as well. However some in the various legislatures and courts around the US disagree by way of interpretation. I feel the same way about limitations to what can be owned. While I have owned full auto weapons for many years, I do not feel everyone should be allowed to do such. Had some of the shooters in recent mass shootings been in possession of full auto weapons, think of how many more would have died. The difference between them and myself is a deeper background check that may have uncovered mental illness, depression, threats and the like. I do not feel a person should be able to own a grenade launcher. We get people, both male and female, all the time in domestic violence situations where they only shoot certain persons and then set fire to a home. If they had grenade launchers, the damage they could do would be mind blowing.

Almost all of us own a laser pointer. I own them for court presentations and to mess with my dog's head. Something that simple is causing pilots problems as people are shining them into the cockpits of airplanes and that is blinding pilots at night. Then we have people shooting at planes flying over their hunting lands. When caught, we find these people did not mean harm but were curious if their gun would reach the plane. What would happen if they owned anti air craft guns?

Some countries allow ownership of full auto and large guns by private ownership. There is a difference in culture between them and the US. Most of those countries have a mandatory military service. The youth are taught virtually from birth about guns. Here, John Doe buys his wife a gun for the house, never teaches her or the kids about how to use it, safety or even lets them shoot it. The kids eventually get the gun and a death or injury takes place.

I know of a case that is in the media around here yesterday. Several kids out of school for the holidays were enjoying being out of school and hanging out together. One had a gun, where it came from is still in question, and he was pointing it around those present. Somehow, without altercation between any of those in attendance, the gun went off and a young man was killed. It was an accident but the youth is now charged with manslaughter and another youth is dead. With gun ownerhsip comes responsibility and not all have the responsibility needed.

Should a person with mental problems be allowed to own a gun? What about a convicted felon? A person with drug & alcohol problems? A 14 yr old gang member? A person with a history of domestic violence? How about a blind person?

Some people will argue these people have a Right to Own but the fact is they do not. Law forbids it due to public safety, municipality restrictions and other reasons. I reconstruct crime and accident scenes, many of which are firearm related. Then I have to testify for or against someone as to my findings, law and other aspects.

As stated, I am as Pro Second as they come. Yet there has to be limitations. The Founding Fathers had guns that would kill someone just as dead as the guns of today. Did they envision what may be available 250 yrs later? Did they know of the problems that would be in the US in 250 yrs?

We are living in a country now with terrorists, not only from other countries but from the US. We are finding that US citizens are taking up arms against the US. We are finding that US citizens are buying arms for terrorist that cannot
legally buy arms. Limitations are needed on what a person can own for the good of the community. And I am not talking about someone owning a Glock 9mm with 10 extra mags. I am talking about someone buying a 15 yr old a AR-15 with 2000 rounds of ammo for the youth and his friends to use unsupervised.

Has there been a rash of livestock shootings in your area lately? Now we see gang initiations including the shooting of livestock. It used to require shooting people but the shooters got caught and went to prison. Shooting livestock is a misdemeanor and carries a fine, if caught. Yet the Second is being argued daily in courts around the coutry as protecting the kids ability to own and use these military style weapons.

It is not the weapon but the way it is used and most of the way it is used will depend on the person using it and that is where we have to place limitations on the Second.

The Second has limitations and is still viewed with various viewpoints. When I question people witnessing an accident, I get different views and they do not always agree. They all saw the same accident but each saw it differently. The Second is no different.
 
There is a vast difference in opinions, beliefs and reality.

Many believe because they own guns, they are Pro 2nd. Not true.

If that were the case, owning an oven would make one a chef or owning a pen and paper would make one an author.

There are several people that own guns, collect guns or even shoot guns. Reality shows us that owning a lot of guns does not even make us a honest person. When perps are arrested with guns, they generally have guns that are legal but illegal for them to be in possesion of or else they have guns that are both illegal (sawed off, filed serial numbers etc) and illegal for the perp to own (convicted felon, firearm free zone, etc). Still, there are those that will argue the 2nd covers their right to own those guns and it does not.

The Second Amendment covers much more than just the Right to Keep & Bear Arms. There are limitations to keeping and bearing arms that are in the Federal Law.

These two statements are completely incongruous.

Additionally, what do you mean by "covers much more?" The
2nd is quite terse:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

What else does that cover?


I will personally argue for a person to be able to own and carry a firearm in any court in the country unless there is a problem in them doing such. I feel we are protected against registration and having to get permits to carry as well. However some in the various legislatures and courts around the US disagree by way of interpretation. I feel the same way about limitations to what can be owned. While I have owned full auto weapons for many years, I do not feel everyone should be allowed to do such. Had some of the shooters in recent mass shootings been in possession of full auto weapons, think of how many more would have died. The difference between them and myself is a deeper background check that may have uncovered mental illness, depression, threats and the like. I do not feel a person should be able to own a grenade launcher. We get people, both male and female, all the time in domestic violence situations where they only shoot certain persons and then set fire to a home. If they had grenade launchers, the damage they could do would be mind blowing.

Almost all of us own a laser pointer. I own them for court presentations and to mess with my dog's head. Something that simple is causing pilots problems as people are shining them into the cockpits of airplanes and that is blinding pilots at night. Then we have people shooting at planes flying over their hunting lands. When caught, we find these people did not mean harm but were curious if their gun would reach the plane. What would happen if they owned anti air craft guns?

Some countries allow ownership of full auto and large guns by private ownership. There is a difference in culture between them and the US. Most of those countries have a mandatory military service. The youth are taught virtually from birth about guns. Here, John Doe buys his wife a gun for the house, never teaches her or the kids about how to use it, safety or even lets them shoot it. The kids eventually get the gun and a death or injury takes place.

I know of a case that is in the media around here yesterday. Several kids out of school for the holidays were enjoying being out of school and hanging out together. One had a gun, where it came from is still in question, and he was pointing it around those present. Somehow, without altercation between any of those in attendance, the gun went off and a young man was killed. It was an accident but the youth is now charged with manslaughter and another youth is dead. With gun ownerhsip comes responsibility and not all have the responsibility needed.

Should a person with mental problems be allowed to own a gun? What about a convicted felon? A person with drug & alcohol problems? A 14 yr old gang member? A person with a history of domestic violence? How about a blind person?

Yes, convicted felons et al should be able to have guns. If
they can't be trusted with guns, they should be in prison.
Laws proscribing their ownership are dangerous pipedreams.


Some people will argue these people have a Right to Own but the fact is they do not. Law forbids it due to public safety, municipality restrictions and other reasons. I reconstruct crime and accident scenes, many of which are firearm related. Then I have to testify for or against someone as to my findings, law and other aspects.

As stated, I am as Pro Second as they come. Yet there has to be limitations. The Founding Fathers had guns that would kill someone just as dead as the guns of today. Did they envision what may be available 250 yrs later? Did they know of the problems that would be in the US in 250 yrs?

This is stupid wrong. Federalist 29:

"This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens."

It was, and is, intended for the citizens to have EQUAL POWER
to the military.



We are living in a country now with terrorists, not only from other countries but from the US. We are finding that US citizens are taking up arms against the US. We are finding that US citizens are buying arms for terrorist that cannot
legally buy arms. Limitations are needed on what a person can own for the good of the community. And I am not talking about someone owning a Glock 9mm with 10 extra mags. I am talking about someone buying a 15 yr old a AR-15 with 2000 rounds of ammo for the youth and his friends to use unsupervised.

Legal proscriptions against minors are not relevent to the
discussion of firearms law: it is a separate subject. Minors
are treated differently on many legal matters.


Has there been a rash of livestock shootings in your area lately? Now we see gang initiations including the shooting of livestock. It used to require shooting people but the shooters got caught and went to prison. Shooting livestock is a misdemeanor and carries a fine, if caught. Yet the Second is being argued daily in courts around the coutry as protecting the kids ability to own and use these military style weapons.

OOOOOO! Military style !!!

It is not the weapon but the way it is used and most of the way it is used will depend on the person using it and that is where we have to place limitations on the Second.

The Second has limitations and is still viewed with various viewpoints. When I question people witnessing an accident, I get different views and they do not always agree. They all saw the same accident but each saw it differently. The Second is no different.

Sir, I would fight to my death for your right to say what you
think. Your statement that you are as pro 2nd as anyone
is simply absurd.

OK, I agree and am likely the most Pro 2nd of all those here.

You belief that certain government selected individuals should be allowed
to have certain government selected firearms. You seem to think that
not being totally anti-gun makes you the most pro. Absurd.

Joe
 
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It sounds to me like your local vice & narcotics squad chose to eat in the same restaurant that you selected. Been there, done that.

Best regards.

Nope, the "friend" I was with is an Assistant Chief and over the muti State Task force. He knows all the officers.

There are some, not many fortunately, that enjoy showing off their guns in public. To them, the gun gives power and is a way of increasing their masculinity. They will carry as many as they can because in their mind it gives them respect. I have interviewed many that told me this. Most of them are gang members.

And I will add that what they did, are doing or will do is very legal. They can carry 100 guns openly if they are eligible by meeting the requirement of possession or ownership. It is when they violate the law that changes the rules of play.
 
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Nope, the "friend" I was with is an Assistant Chief and over the muti State Task force. He knows all the officers.

There are some, not many fortunately, that enjoy showing off their guns in public. To them, the gun gives power and is a way of increasing their masculinity. They will carry as many as they can because in their mind it gives them respect. I have interviewed many that told me this. Most of them are gang members.

And I will add that what they did, are doing or will do is very legal. They can carry 100 guns openly if they are eligible by meeting the requirement of possession or ownership. It is when they violate the law that changes the rules of play.

Sir,
it sounds to me then, that Louisiana needs to come into the 21 century and update its laws. I don't know all the laws for all the states, but all of them that I have checked into so far, do not allow one to possess a firearm while drinking or under the influence of alchohol or any controlled substance. If they do in your state, shame on your state.

If they do not, then it sounds like you and your fellow officer were lax in doing your job that night at the restaraunt. I know for certain they would have been arrested quick, fast, and in a hurry in my state.
 
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This "living,breathing document" that some always try to use is nonsense.

I believe Ray summed it all up in post #4 above.
 
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