Brill-style Scabbard by Charles Kluge

[boykinlp]

I have recently acquired a Brill-style scabbard. It was determined by the experts that it was made by Charles Kluge of the Kluge Brothers Saddlery between 1906 and 1912. The company was a significant downtown Austin leather enterprise, being in business for 20 plus years in 1906. By 1912, the A.W. Brill Company took over the Kluge Brothers Saddlery, but the brothers remained on as employees.

According to Red Nichols, "Charles Kluge of Kluge Brothers was the innovator who created the style for Captain Hughes in 1906; it was long thought it was N.J. Rabensburg but period news articles put us straight on that. Rabensburg likely was at Kluge Brothers saddlery as a saddle cub at that time.

Kluge made the scabbards, in the familiar basketweave and in that particular carving style, too, from then until 1912 when A.W. Brill bought out the Kluge Brothers saddlery. From then on they were the same scabbards but with the A.W. Brill stamp in the center of the leather cuff. The welt stack of these Kluge scabbards are always quite straight, the cuffs are wide, the tip ends of the cuffs are sewn to the fender in just that way, and there is just one welt inside the welt stack.

It was in 1932 that Rabensburg joined Brill to eventually replace Charles Kluge who would die a decade later. Rabensburg changed the style of the holster and including that carving; added a second and even third welt, contoured the main welt stack, changed the hand sewing of the cuff ends, added a stitch to the open end of the welt stack."

I contacted some of the owners of the known Brill-style scabbards on the forum and thought a new thread should be started to limit confusion. Hopefully, as more scabbards are identified that fit this description, they will be posted here, so we can discuss them. These scabbards are fairly easy to identify when looking at the rear and welt of the scabbard. Here are pictures of my scabbard:
Larry

 

[wheelgun610]

I don't think there's any doubt yours and mine were made by the same person. If there are any subtle differences that I don't know to look for, I hope someone will point them out here for clarification. The only real difference I see at first glance is that yours will accept a much wider belt than mine. I'd have to assume that mine was what is referred to as a "Sunday Scabbard", to be worn on a trouser belt under a suit jacket. Men's suit jackets were considerably longer a hundred years ago than what we're used to seeing today.

Anyway, here's one shot of mine that I have access to at the moment. I'll add a few more as soon as I can locate them in my main computer.

Mark

 

[rednichols]

Easy to tell them apart when you become an expert, just as my radiographer wife was able to spot the bone spurs on my shoulders in a glance at my X-rays yesterday!

Images will tell the tale. Remember that if you're looking at the basketweave versions, there is little to tell a tale. If the floral, the two eras are VERY different. There are NO plain A.W. Brill holsters.





Wanna know why we holstorians have changed our minds about who was the first maker of the Sunday scabbard? This is one of several articles that appeared at Charles Kluge's death January 1944:



And the announcement of his saddlery's purchase in 1912:



THE CUFF IS ALWAYS IN THE SAME POSITION ON ALL KLUGE/BRILL SCABBARDS REGARDLESS OF BELT TUNNEL WIDTH. The cuff was a structural part of the design's retention system, so for a wider belt the fender was folded further away from the holster mouth; here is an extreme example that is in the book Holstory:



You now know enough to tell me: who made this one, Kluge or Rabensburg?

 

[boykinlp]

View attachment 572556

You now know enough to tell me: who made this one, Kluge or Rabensburg?

Alright, here goes (without the cheat sheet of the back of the holster), if I am seeing correctly, I see an extra hand fish hook stitch at the top of the welt, and I see a thick stacked welt. From the angle, it is kinda difficult to see the curved line along the welt, but I think it is there. So.......I say it is a Rabensburg.

“Kluge designed a SCABBARD and belt for a six-shooter that was worn by practically every peace officer in Texas and filled orders all over the world.” This is quite a statement!
Larry

 

[wheelgun610]

...THE CUFF IS ALWAYS IN THE SAME POSITION ON ALL KLUGE/BRILL SCABBARDS REGARDLESS OF BELT TUNNEL WIDTH.

To me it's pretty obvious that the cuff on my holster is closer to the mouth of the pouch than on Larry's example. And the placement of the cuff is definitely what is dictating the width of the belt tunnel. The fender on both appears to extend upward about the same distance on both holsters. The location of the cuff hasn't been modified on either of them. I actually do have some detailed pics to add as soon as I get a few minutes to sit down and do it...

Mark

 

[rednichols]

Alright, here goes (without the cheat sheet of the back of the holster), if I am seeing correctly, I see an extra hand fish hook stitch at the top of the welt, and I see a thick stacked welt. From the angle, it is kinda difficult to see the curved line along the welt, but I think it is there. So.......I say it is a Rabensburg.

“Kluge designed a SCABBARD and belt for a six-shooter that was worn by practically every peace officer in Texas and filled orders all over the world.” This is quite a statement!
Larry

Of course you are correct, which suggests you are also empowered by knowing from the tiniest of details, which is which. That you're missing the curvaceous welt stack is for lack of comparison perhaps? Here is FBI agent Jerry Campbell's Brill for his .44 frame Smith:



Notice also the scale of the A.W. Brill mark, to the cuff itself. The oldies are quite wide vs the late models.

To complicate matters there are many makers of the Sunday Scabbard, the second best of which is the Sessums which was made by Robert Rogers and his son Bedell. Brillalikes are also not marked with the Brill name but neither are they Brills in any other way. There was a specification of sorts for the Sunday scabbard; but you will find no unmarked scabbard that has all the details of either era of Brill; nor will you find any of these details omitted, ever, from a Brill from either era.

 

[Kansasgunner]

boykinlp asked me to post some photos of my Brill by Charles Kluge with some measurements. This holster is a LH for a 4” fixed sight N frame.

 

[boykinlp]

boykinlp asked me to post some photos of my Brill by Charles Kluge with some measurements. This holster is a LH for a 4” fixed sight N frame.

Thanks, Tim. That is exactly what I need. Maybe that will help me determine what mine fits. I was told that it fit a S&W 4" K frame revolver. Unfortunately, the only 4" one I have is my Texas Ranger commemorative, and it doesn't fit quite right. Of course, my scabbard is over 100 years old since it was made between 1906 and 1912. It might need to be a 4" revolver without adjustable sights like a M&P.
Larry

 

[rednichols]

Thanks, Tim. That is exactly what I need. Maybe that will help me determine what mine fits. I was told that it fit a S&W 4" K frame revolver. Unfortunately, the only 4" one I have is my Texas Ranger commemorative, and it doesn't fit quite right. Of course, my scabbard is over 100 years old since it was made between 1906 and 1912. It might need to be a 4" revolver without adjustable sights like a M&P.
Larry

Jah, a scabbard made 1906-1912 will be for 'holster sights'. Adjustables are rarely encountered in holster guns until the mid'60s and it was this changeover that inspired the Safariland Sight Track; a channel in neoprene for the front sight of Patridge-equipped revolvers.

When I say "the cuff is always in the same place" I intend to say that the cuff was meant to go 'round the frame and although there are minor differences between the two eras, and among holsters, its position doesn't vary by the amount of belt width increase. Here's a great comparison of otherwise nearly identical Brills by Rabensburg:

 

[boykinlp]

Jah, a scabbard made 1906-1912 will be for 'holster sights'.

To complicate matters there are many makers of the Sunday Scabbard, the second best of which is the Sessums which was made by Robert Rogers and his son Bedell. Brillalikes are also not marked with the Brill name but neither are they Brills in any other way. There was a specification of sorts for the Sunday scabbard; but you will find no unmarked scabbard that has all the details of either era of Brill; nor will you find any of these details omitted, ever, from a Brill from either era.

In your first sentence above, don't you mean will not be for holster sights?

Just to make sure that I am on the same page as yourself, you are saying that in your opinion, our scabbards by Kluge are "Brill's" and not Brill-a-likes, right.

Now I am confusing myself. I thought I had seen an early AW Brill maker marked holster by Kluge with a single or no stacked welt.
Larry

 

[Kansasgunner]

Prior to 1912 there was no A.W. Brill Saddlery. So the original "Sunday Scabbards" would more appropriately be products of Kluge Bros. Saddlery. After the sale in 1912 when A.W. Brill bought the Kluge Bros. out, the A.W. Brill stamp came to be and from 1912 until 1932 the "Sunday Scabbards" marked with the Brill stamp were still being made by Charles Kluge. NJ Rabensburg came to the Brill company in 1932 and incoporated his changes into the design which endured until Mr. Rabensburgs death. I hope I got all this right from Red's posts as well as Neal Rabensburgs information.

 

[boykinlp]

Prior to 1912 there was no A.W. Brill Saddlery. So the original "Sunday Scabbards" would more appropriately be products of Kluge Bros. Saddlery. After the sale in 1912 when A.W. Brill bought the Kluge Bros. out, the A.W. Brill stamp came to be and from 1912 until 1932 the "Sunday Scabbards" marked with the Brill stamp were still being made by Charles Kluge. NJ Rabensburg came to the Brill company in 1932 and incoporated his changes into the design which endured until Mr. Rabensburgs death. I hope I got all this right from Red's posts as well as Neal Rabensburgs information.

Yeah, Tim, like I said, now I am confusing myself! What is confusing me, I guess is when Red says "nor will you find any of these details omitted, ever, from a Brill from either era". I was thinking the early Brill's made by Kluge were missing the stacked welt, like your holster. So an early Brill, could be missing the stacked welt of the later era.

Tim, thanks for the measurements. Check mine out. The first one looks more than 7”, but the small amount extra is actually the belt loop and not the holster itself. I also made a couple more measurements. I don’t have a 4” fixed sight K frame or N frame revolver.
Larry

 

[rednichols]

How fun! Yessir, as old Tex Shoemaker used to say; confusion reigns now.

The clipping I included, shows that 'back in the day' these holsters were known as 'Kluge Scabbards'. The 'Sunday Scabbard' term comes from Ranger Captain Sterling's book and in the past I have pushed it as a generic phrase; and indeed it is for all such scabbards made 'under the auspices' of Brill AND for all the Brillalikes that were made by saddlers NOT associated with Brill. Make sense so far? Here's one such from Kingsville Lumber (whoops, my error, wrong image, this is the King Ranch holster that preceded):



Today, having so much more to look at than in 1906, we define a Kluge Scabbard as "those constructed in the 'early' spec BUT NOT MARKED BRILL". After 1912 we would simply call them 'early Brills' because they ARE marked Brill.

In 1932, N.J. Rabensburg arrived at Brill's saddlery and took over. We do not yet know if he immediately changed the construction of a Brill Scabbard, or if Charles kept making them in the early style because Charles continued to work for Brill until his death in '42 (say the several contemporaneous articles).



By the time of Rabensburg's own death in '61, he appears in a '59 photo making with and without the Brill stamping, in his contoured 'late' style. And we have one of those holsters, partially completed, left behind for his family. He also is shown there making them 'in blank' (no marking); so there are Kluge scabbards w/out the Brill name; Brill scabbards early; Brill scabbards late; Rabensburg scabbards w/out the Brill name; and Brillalikes. Then in both the 'early' and 'late' eras, are those true Brills made by Kluge and by Rabensburg, for Texas Rangers that have the rangers' initials where the maker's mark otherwise w/b (the rangers' service matching the eras of manufacture).

An 'early' scabbard 'associated with Brill' (so I call them Brills regardless) has only a single welt. This is more significant than you realize: no other holsters/scabbards had welts in them until the King Ranch scabbard of circa 1899. They looked like this; look carefully for the differences which are substantial:



N.J.'s version received more than the contoured figure that I liken to a woman's (all commercially successful holsters have 'sex appeal', according to JB): they also received at least two welts, and often three. The purpose of the welts is to grab at the pistol frame, the purpose of the cuff is to form the lower half of the belt loop tunnel (it's very carefully placed to do this) and to keep that section of the holster very tight against the frame over time.

Bottom line is although you all may not keep track of the reasons for all the differences, each set is only found COMPLETE on one, or the other, of the eras; they are NEVER mixed. So when you're holding a scabbard of that construction that is carved, you will be able to tell immediately if it is by Kluge, by Rabensburg, or by a third party Brillalike maker. Same with that sewing of the cuff ends on the backside. Below is a Sessums as by the Rogers father/son team:





Ok. Now, that pair of images, which are of a Sessums that I bought from a chap here in Australia who had found it in a storage locker that was emptied/sold for non-payment of fees, was VERY tight on a K frame. It took a bit of time for me to realize that all these scabbards are made so tight that they SWELL when the revolver is holstered. Hence the cuff. So today, what you might think 'doesn't fit', is 'fits' .

 

[crazyphil]

Based on all of the expert testimony above, I am assuming that my Brill
was made by Rabensberg sometime after 1932.
Front on the left
Back 2nd from left
2 welts 3rd from left
4th from left perfect fit for my Model 10 4" barrel
By the way, I know what happens when I assume anything, so you
don't need to remind me.

 

[rednichols]

Based on all of the expert testimony above, I am assuming that my Brill
was made by Rabensberg sometime after 1932.
Front on the left
Back 2nd from left
2 welts 3rd from left
4th from left perfect fit for my Model 10 4" barrel
By the way, I know what happens when I assume anything, so you
don't need to remind me.

"Assuming" is just not the ideal word. Instead you're deducing from knowledge; and you are right, that is an N.J. Brill.

 

[crazyphil]

Upon further review I found that my Brill, shown in post 14 above, only
has one welt, and the tip is sewn to the fender.
So now, I am deducing that it is probably made by Kluge, sometime after
1912 when Brill bought the business.
My photos are not clear enough or I'm sure one of you experts
would have picked up on the single welt.

 

[rednichols]

Upon further review I found that my Brill, shown in post 14 above, only
has one welt, and the tip is sewn to the fender.
So now, I am deducing that it is probably made by Kluge, sometime after
1912 when Brill bought the business.
My photos are not clear enough or I'm sure one of you experts
would have picked up on the single welt.

It's your eyes, Phil . Take a good pic of your main welt stick and I'll point out the multiple welts for you.

I can see from your current image the stack is too thick for a single welt; and all the features of construction are Rabensburg.

N.J. was a master at blending the surface of his welt stack to make it look like it was all of a piece; at Bianchi we strived for this, too, long ago. Here's an example that shows how hard it is to pick the layers:

 

[rednichols]

Your image below, Phil, 'brightened' to show the central line between two main welts (N.J.'s typically were two different thicknesses of leather, by a lot):



A better pic would show MORE layers; one main welt tapers to nothing (called skiving) to accept another welt that is also skived; then the muzzle will have yet a third layer that appears to be to enlarge the pocket for the revolver barrel there.



The 'lip' of a Sunday scabbard is ALWAYS sewn to the tip of the fender, no matter which saddler made it -- or it's not a Sunday scabbard. N.J. used a hand chain stitch (looks like a chain of stitches laying on top of the backside of the leather, which it literally is) while Kluge used a straight hand stitch as for the main welt stack.

 

[crazyphil]

O.K. I am convinced. I was wright and then wrong. My eyesight is not
it once was. Thank you Red.

 

[boykinlp]

Mark, for some reason your pictures aren't showing up for me. I am just getting a circle with a minus sign in the middle. I will try again later.
Larry