Brinnell Hardnes for 357 Mag

[sbrmike]

I am in need of some cast bullets for my model 66-1 in 357 Mag. I am not a hot rodder; I just want a good all purpose round for targets, hunting white tail deer and possibly Black Bear until I can shoulder a rifle again. The ranges would be pretty darn close if the opportunity arose, definitely inside 50 yards.

I currently have my loads as 158 grain LSWC with no gas checks over 6.0 grains of Unique. These are Missouri Bullet Company 15 BNH.

There is a place in PA that recommends 12 BNH for that loading for better expansion.

I am out of bullets and the place in PA also offers 100 packs instead of the 500 that most other cast places require.

What are thoughts on this? I did kill a 250 pound Black Bear with a 158 grain SJRN Magtech factory round 20+ years ago.

 

[rockquarry]

If you're using commercial cast bullets, I'd try several at different levels of hardness. A 12 BHN bullet that FITS will be accurate and won't lead the bore even at magnum velocities. The same can be said for a 15 BHN bullet.

However, the 15 BHN bullet will likely be easier to work with if you lack cast bullet experience, though it probably won't expand quite as well as the softer bullet.

These are generalizations. Beware of the many changeable factors involved here and realize there are sometimes exceptions. Experimentation and bench shooting will be worth the effort and you'll know what works best in your gun. No one can tell you that. Good luck-

 

[colt_saa]

Is there a reason that you want to buy from the guy in PA?

In this day and age of flat rate Priority Mail shipping boxes, shipping is fast and relatively cheap for heavy packages like bullets.

I would want to keep using a Jacketed Soft Point projectile along the lines of that MagTech load if I were in your shoes.

Leading won't be an issue for a jacketed round

If you are staying away from Jacketed projectiles because of price, look at one of the many coated projectiles. Some companies even let you choose your color

Image courtesy of Eggelston Bullets​

Blue Bullets sells in quantities as small as 50 if that matters to you

Personally I like larger quantities as they make better use of the USPS Flat Rate boxes

There are also plated projectiles to choose from

You have some of the benefits of jacketed with some of the cost savings of cast lead. With these you could safely increase your powder charge to 8 grains of Unique nd pick up several hundred FPS with the same weight of projectile

 

[sbrmike]

I may be mistaken, but my thoughts are the LSWC offerings make a nice big hole with a bit less recoil.

The hardness is for leading vs velocity vs expansion, with expansion being the most critical. I want the bullet soft enough to expand at my velocity (under 1000 fps), and hard enough to not lead up the bore excessively. I am unable to shoulder a kicking rifle for the foreseeable future. I may look into one of those strap on Past pads.

I don't shoot as much as I used to and a 100 count box will do me a long time as I still have 150 loaded rounds is the main reason for the PA guy.

I have loaded thousands of cast revolver bullets from 148 gn DEWC, HBWC, 158 RN, 158 LSWC, and 158 Hornady LSWCHP's. I never used gas checks nor do I size them. .358" works fine. I have used prelubed as well as lubed myself with Lee Liquid Alox.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

I have seen more leading with commercial hard cast lead bullets with a BHN of 16 or more than I have with my own cast bullets at 12-14 BHN. All were .358" diameter. The commercial bullets leaded more at moderate velocities. They also had a small bevel on the base, a little boat tail if you will. I suspect it is there to facilitates manufacturing; ie aiding in alignment during the sizing/lube process. I also suspect it aids gas blow by when fired which will cause leading. The coated or plated bullets may be the route to go, though I haven't used them myself.
Good target loads are not the best choice for hunting deer. You do need to have good penetration and that comes with the energy behind the bullet. I loaded my 357 deer loads with nearly 15 gr of 2400 and a cast 158 gr SWC gs check bullet. BHN was 12-14 range. That's a max load for the 357 mag. I was using it in an 8" model 27.
BTW, solid lead bullets are a better choice than the jacketed HPs for whitetail. Better penetration. But I would suggest something heavier than a 357 Mag for bear. They got a lot of fat to penetrate.

"Pine Creek" John

 

[Transamconvert]

If you mean penn bullets he passed and I don't think they're in business anymore.

 

[sbrmike]

Moyers Cast Bullets Moyer's Cast Bullets - Home He is alive. I spoke to him last week.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I don't think you're going to get expansion from any lead bullet at under 1000 fps. Even pure lead may/may not expand at that velocity, especially if it's not a hollow point. If you want reliable expansion, you're going to have to up your velocity. That said, a well-designed .357 SWC at 1000 fps is not to be sneezed at, expansion or no.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I don't think you're going to get expansion from any lead bullet at under 1000 fps. Even pure lead may/may not expand at that velocity, especially if it's not a hollow point. If you want reliable expansion, you're going to have to up your velocity. That said, a well-designed .357 SWC at 1000 fps is not to be sneezed at, expansion or no.

This sums up my own experience after 50 years of reloading, 49 years of bullet casting, and several deer taken with .357 magnum handloads using both SWC and SWC-HP cast bullets.

 

[rkrcpa]

Moyers Cast Bullets Moyer's Cast Bullets - Home He is alive. I spoke to him last week.

I've been buying bullets from Randy for decades, quality bullets at a great price.

I agree with the others, 1000fps is really not fast enough to worry too much about leading. I'm pushing his 15bhn bullets to 1400fps with no issues.

I've never bought .357 bullets from him, did he say what mold he is using for the swcfb?

 

[stan v]

Without getting to far in the tall grass you have another option and that is a carbine in 357 mag. The difference in velocity is huge between a 6" revolver and a 16" rifle barrel. Besides, they're a blast to shoot with zero recoil.

 

[gwpercle]

Hardness is way overrated in handgun ammo ... what's more important ...
... Fit . The bullet needs to fit the throeat and throat size needs to be a little larger ( or the same dia.) as the barrel diameter .
If the bullet fits you can shoot a BHN of 8 or 9 .
Elmer Keith shot a alloy of 1 / 16 tin-lead with a BHN of about 10 in his magnum revolvers .

A hard undersized bullet will lead a barrel like you wouldn't believe !

Coated bullets can be 1/20 with a BHN of 10 and will usually not leave any lead in a barrel .

Slug your throats and slug your barrel and size accordingly .
Gary

 

[boatbum101]

357 for northern WTs ..........180gr bullet pushed as fast as possible , 50yds or less shots & preferably launched out a carbine / rifle . Model 66 well scratch the 180's . 158 / 160 JSP or WFN over a casefull of W296/H110 & neck / high shoulder shots as close as possible . JHP if you're a boiler room guy .

 

[ajgunner]

Just my 2 cents---the multiple colors available from eggelston sure make it easy to play with different loads. Yes they are slightly higher priced than a single color in bulk. Simply change to a different color bullet for a different powder charge. I load super light weights for the wife and girls in pink, and hot rods in red. This makes it super easy to tell them apart.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Most times it's not the bullet hardness that effects leading, it's bullet fit. If the bullet doesn't expand enough to seal off the hot gasses you will lead the barrel.

From what I've seen bullets which are too hard will lead barrels more than bullets which are too soft. The super hard bullets will not bump up to seal off the barrel and the hot gasses run up the side of the bullet and melt the lead leaving lead in your barrel.

For high velocity .357 Magnum ammo that will expand easily for hunting use a 158gr LSWC with a BHN of 12 but with a diameter of .359" or even .360" if necessary.

Of course this is just my opinion and I'm sure there are other who don't agree but I have found it to be true over the years and I'm not the only one.

 

[6string]

I will throw in with gwpercle and ArchngelCD.

Fit will get you to cast bullet nirvana, hardness will not!
You need to measure your cylinder throat diameters. Hopefully, they match or just exceed by .001-.002" your barrel groove diameter. Hopefully, you don't have an overtorqued barrel with constriction just ahead of the forcing cone. (These things can most often be fixed, but better if they're OK to start with.)

If you lack plug gauges or a hole gauge to measure throats, try dropping bullets of a known diameter into your cylinder. If a .357 or .358" bullet just fall through, you'll want to start out with a .359-.360" cast bullet. If a .357" bullet gets hung up, then you may need to open your cylinder throats. No biggie. But, if your throats happen to be that tight, you'll likely have leading (and accuracy!) headaches that can't be resolved with bullet hardness or gas checks.

 

[John Patrick]

Just my 2 cents---the multiple colors available from eggelston sure make it easy to play with different loads. Yes they are slightly higher priced than a single color in bulk. Simply change to a different color bullet for a different powder charge. I load super light weights for the wife and girls in pink, and hot rods in red. This makes it super easy to tell them apart.

Great idea!

 

[Racer X]

Just my 2 cents---the multiple colors available from eggelston sure make it easy to play with different loads. Yes they are slightly higher priced than a single color in bulk. Simply change to a different color bullet for a different powder charge. I load super light weights for the wife and girls in pink, and hot rods in red. This makes it super easy to tell them apart.

super easy to tell .38 special loads from .357 magnum loads too.