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wnwitzell

wnwitzell

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I went into a new gun store here in Las Cruces right after it opened at 10AM. Just killing time and admiring all the black ARs an tactical paraphernalia. There were three display cases of plastic pistols and one small case with some Taurus and Ruger 357s. When I left at 1015 three people were filling out forms on their new Tupperware pistols! I'd say business is great here in the borderland!
 
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old bear said:
Sadly, it appears that most folks want a tools when it comes to firearms, not a well crafted quality product. This is also sad, for those of who want a quality handguns, as they are becoming harder to find and way more expensive when we do locate one.
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Tool are quality too. Not everything has to be a work of art in order to be quality
 
wnwitzell said:
I went into a new gun store here in Las Cruces right after it opened at 10AM. Just killing time and admiring all the black ARs an tactical paraphernalia. There were three display cases of plastic pistols and one small case with some Taurus and Ruger 357s. When I left at 1015 three people were filling out forms on their new Tupperware pistols! I'd say business is great here in the borderland!
Click to expand...

Gun business has to be great in a border state, doesn't it?
 
old bear said:
Sadly, it appears that most folks want a tools when it comes to firearms, not a well crafted quality product. This is also sad, for those of who want a quality handguns, as they are becoming harder to find and way more expensive when we do locate one.
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Is a Glock any worse quality than your 3000 gun? Id say the quality is the same in terms of reliability and usr. Only thing really different are the decorative pieces.

To me guns are a tool, all of them. Not everyone has to be a collector. There are people who collect Jordans shoes and then there are those who wear them.
 
Biginge said:
Here we go again. Some of you younger fellows dont remember when Fred (old bear) and I started the first chapter of mall ninjas. We wore working overalls that 5.11 patterned their current product from. I miss those days
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Plates doubled up with duct tape? ;)
 
Arik said:
Tool are quality too. Not everything has to be a work of art in order to be quality
Click to expand...

Top quality in tools? You have Say... Snap On and then ya have Harbor Freight. I consider Tupperware guns as HF. Yep they work. Do they have soul? Nah! I have to say. Nothing wrong with the Tupperware stuff as they do work. The new stuff being sold is more of a generational thing. I do quite a few gun shows..sell a bunch of reloading items and a few guns. I find that younger folks don't really care about quality as we older guys did. They seem to have a disposable mentality and the plastic guns seem to fit their mindset. They buy something like a Glock or XD shoot it for a while and trade it in like a used car. Is that wrong? Not really. The main difference is all between our ears. I still have my first Handgun, first rifle and first shotgun I bought. Nostalgia. Nope.... still have 'em and worth more... much more than I paid. I didn't grow up in a disposable society. We were in it for the long run. Now Trap Shooters of the past were something like the young guys of today..Kept me in profit when I had the gun shop! LOL
 
Skeet 028 said:
Top quality in tools? You have Say... Snap On and then ya have Harbor Freight. I consider Tupperware guns as HF. Yep they work. Do they have soul? Nah! I have to say. Nothing wrong with the Tupperware stuff as they do work. The new stuff being sold is more of a generational thing. I do quite a few gun shows..sell a bunch of reloading items and a few guns. I find that younger folks don't really care about quality as we older guys did. They seem to have a disposable mentality and the plastic guns seem to fit their mindset. They buy something like a Glock or XD shoot it for a while and trade it in like a used car. Is that wrong? Not really. The main difference is all between our ears. I still have my first Handgun, first rifle and first shotgun I bought. Nostalgia. Nope.... still have 'em and worth more... much more than I paid. I didn't grow up in a disposable society. We were in it for the long run. Now Trap Shooters of the past were something like the young guys of today..Kept me in profit when I had the gun shop! LOL
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I agree with some of that but not with the HF analogy. HF is cheaper because it is actually lower quality material. They are fine for occasional work around the house but they wouldn't last long in a busy mechanic shop or construction site. Where as "Tupperware" has shown to last and last for hundreds of thousands of rounds in adverse conditions and daily use. That's quality. It doesn't matter what kind of feelings said material invokes for you, the fact is they are proven to work. Of course this is just a general statement. Not all guns, whether new or old, semi or revolver, steel of polymer, are built to the same standards. A Rohm is not a S&W and a Keltec is not a HK.

Soul? Don't see it and never have..on any gun. I tried I just don't get it. I once set out 3 guns just to see what you guys were talking about. Maybe I was not seeing something. Put a 1911, a model 13 and a Glock. All I saw are 3 different style guns. May as well have added a stapler a cell phone and a leaf blower. All tools to do something.

Could look at it as disposable, I dont. I look at it as test driving only you can't rent before you buy everywhere and not every rental range has all the handguns. There are just more options today. Realistically, what was available in your time and what was the typical carry? There was Colt and S&W revolvers and 1911, which was mainly a Colt unless it was a surplus gun. I'm sure some models were more expensive than others and there was probably a working man's model like the model 10 S&W. Yes there was also surplus guns but I doubt they were as common as the Colt/S&W/1911 as far as being bought for use. I'm sure someone carried a Webley but it was far more likely to be a S&W or Colt.
But if you shot one you shot then all. If you were interested in buying a model 10 or a 1911 you could probably find a reletive or friend who had one and would let you try it. Today there are dozens of manufacturers offering different styles, grips, emphasis on concealability or duty guns. Can't possibly try them all. I went through a few before I found what worked for me as a carry gun. Small guns make sense on paper but when I put them to the test I found it wasn't for me. Too small of a grip for my hands. So there was some buying and trading in. Looking back I would have done the same if I had bought say a 6 inch model 19 for carry and realized a 2.5 inch is more practical. Once you learn what you like you tend to stick with that.
 
Arik said:
Soul? Don't see it and never have..on any gun. I tried I just don't get it. Could look at it as disposable, I dont. I look at it as test driving . Realistically, what was available in your time and what was the typical carry? me as a carry gun. Small guns make sense on paper but when I put them to the test I found it wasn't for me. Too small of a grip for my hands. So there was some buying and trading in. .
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If you can't see a difference in plastic guns and wood and steel.... I feel for you. How about cars? Hugo and a Jag? Personally..and not dissing anyone who "likes" plastic guns...I can't see them as great guns. Glocks?? Cops with Glocks scare the crapo out of me. Only safety is beteen their ears. Yep...no safety on a S&W either. But plenty on a 1911. Plastic guns are made...in my opinion because it's so much easier to inject plastic in a mold stick some parts in it and call it a "great" firearm. I put Glocks and some of their contemporaries the the same category you put HF tools. Yep they work. Quality...not so much. Just because it sells well doen't mean it is great. Just means it is cheaper or fits the current mentality. Have I used Tupperware stuff. Sure. I had an 11-87 with a plastic stock. Waterfowl gun and I was a waterfowl guide. Hunted with it hard. I even had a Menelli SBE once. Worked but what a pile of expensive junk! My opinion. Just reading your post makes me feel you are part of the generational group. Not saying your outlook is wrong. As far as what was available in my time?? Hell my friend..since I ain't pushing up daisies...I consider this to BE my time. LOL! and happily there are still some decent guns being made today. Happily I have 8 or 9 Kimber rifles all Classic selects Pretty French walnut and yep I use them to hunt. Life's too short to shoot an UGLY gun. Arik...I'm sorry you don't seem to have any romance in your soul:D Oh BTW..I'm not real keen about little guns either. Much harder to shoot well
 
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Skeet 028 said:
If you can't see a difference in plastic guns and wood and steel.... I feel for you. How about cars? Hugo and a Jag? Personally..and not dissing anyone who "likes" plastic guns...I can't see them as great guns. Glocks?? Cops with Glocks scare the crapo out of me. Only safety is beteen their ears. Yep...no safety on a S&W either. But plenty on a 1911. Plastic guns are made...in my opinion because it's so much easier to inject plastic in a mold stick some parts in it and call it a "great" firearm. I put Glocks and some of their contemporaries the the same category you put HF tools. Yep they work. Quality...not so much. Just because it sells well doen't mean it is great. Just means it is cheaper or fits the current mentality. Have I used Tupperware stuff. Sure. I had an 11-87 with a plastic stock. Waterfowl gun and I was a waterfowl guide. Hunted with it hard. I even had a Menelli SBE once. Worked but what a pile of expensive junk! My opinion. Just reading your post makes me feel you are part of the generational group. Not saying your outlook is wrong. As far as what was available in my time?? Hell my friend..since I ain't pushing up daisies...I consider this to BE my time. LOL! and happily there are still some decent guns being made today. Happily I have 8 or 9 Kimber rifles all Classic selects Pretty French walnut and yep I use them to hunt. Life's too short to shoot an UGLY gun. Arik...I'm sorry you don't seem to have any romance in your soul:D Oh BTW..I'm not real keen about little guns either. Much harder to shoot well
Click to expand...

Cars would probably be similar. What is the best, most economical, longest lasting automobile to go from A to B. My last car, a 01 Toyota Solara (2dr Camry) ran for almost 300k miles and the most expensive thing I replaced was the radiator at 210k miles. Even the rotors were almost original (I bought the car with 70k miles). I sold it cause it was getting tired and i didnt want to sink any kind of serious money into it with the mileage that it had. That's what I like. My current car I've had for 2 years. Bought with 29k now has 71k. It's a 4 year old Corolla. Good gas mileage, plenty of room for me and historically they don't need a lot of maintenance. Wouldn't buy a Yugo based on their reliability. But if they were like a Toyota ...sure!

Quality to me is not "look" it's function. Can throw a deep blue and walnut on anything. Doesn't make it quality and I don't feel anything from it. It's just a grip (or stock) which either fits or doesnt. I have a few surplus rifles I like to shoot but not because they have wood stocks or amazing finish. I don't notice or feel that. No more then you would care if your keyboard. When you type do you wish the keyboard was covered in wood or do you just use it to put words on screen?

Me and you have a,different understanding of quality. For me its function and durability, like an old truck that gets constant use and little to no maintenance vs a Jag that looks nice but serves no other purpose. Looking nice is not why I buy guns
 
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Arik said:
Tool are quality too. Not everything has to be a work of art in order to be quality
Click to expand...

Maybe not, but it sure is nice when a tool IS a work of art. I have a couple of poly pistols because I don't want to carry any of my favorite guns. I wonder why people that don't seem to care for Smiths even bother with this site.
 
Arik said:
Yes there was also surplus guns but I doubt they were as common as the Colt/S&W/1911 as far as being bought for use.
Click to expand...

That was not always the case. Years ago, I went through a phase where I wanted a DA 45acp revolver, but I didn't want to spend a lot. J&G had a shipment of of surplus Brazilian 1917 ex-police S&W guns of that description. I don't recall the exact price, but it was just over $100. Those were the cheapest 45acp revolvers to be had.

The one I received was a 1934 vintage model. While the exterior was "experienced", the insides looked like it had never been fired.
 
Biginge said:
Here we go again. Some of you younger fellows dont remember when Fred (old bear) and I started the first chapter of mall ninjas. We wore working overalls that 5.11 patterned their current product from. I miss those days
Click to expand...


:D:D:D As do I my friend. I guess we gotta keep reminding the young guy's. It's not their fault. They never learned any better;)
 
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