Bullet behavior

[6518John]

My son shot a nice 8 point yesterday. When we were gutting it out, I discovered the 7mm-08 (139 grain Hornady Interlock American Whitetail round) went in with a traditional shoulder shot, and hit big rib/shoulder on other side severely fracturing them. Then the bullet ricocheted back in the original direction and at an angle and back out the buck's neck. It exited the neck about mid way up and on the same side it went in!

The buck dropped in its tracks like it was struck by lightning, but I was really surprised to see how that bullet behaved. As you know the 7mm 08 is what I would describe as a sedate cartridge. It's not some super high velocity cartridge with light weight bullets (which I tend to think are the crazy acting ones).

This buck did walk up very close—20-30 yards and his shots are normally 100-125. I usually find the bullet under the skin by the opposite shoulder or rib cage. Maybe the close range led to the bouncing around?

 

[s&wchad]

Congratulations to your son! Hard to find fault with those results.

The 7MM-08 is no slouch and is very similar to the .280 Remington. I've used a .280 to take a number of deer and antelope. Bullets do strange things when they hit ribs and a scapula or two!

 

[glowe]

Everybody has different preferences in bullet weights, but mine is for a heavy bullet. I see no reason to go light when hunting deer. I was probably influenced by my father who always shot deer with a 30-06 and 220g bullets. Never chased a single one in 40 years of hunting.

The only ricochets like you noted that I have ever seen are from light bullets. Mass carries forward, but my opinion is deflection potential increases as bullet weight goes down.

Never got big game hunting with light bullets at medium distances? It cannot be to reduce recoil, since you only should need one shot. Besides light bullets are easily deflected by the smallest twig, where heavy bullets can bust some brush and still be accurate enough to bring down a deer. My grandfather had a 35 Remington, Model 8 and bought the heaviest bullet they made, 200 grain if I recall. He considered it to be the ultimate brush gun.

 

[pistolpete10]

I've shot a bunch of deer with 130gr 270, never had one act like that but it could happen. I've never seen the need of a real heavy bullet for deer, I've also killed a bunch with a 243 with an 85 gr bullet. As for "brush busting", don't do it, even a heavy bullet is deflected just like a lighter bullet. If it ain't a clear shot don't take it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Congratulations on getting a deer for the locker.

As for not being a huge knock down load, you have to look at
what the load has to offer.

a 139 gr bullet doing just 2800 fps has a MV of 2420 ft/lbs of energy. That is 1.2 TONS of energy....... hitting a 250 lb deer.

Any bullet hitting bone or a shoulder bone can end up anywhere.....
once the tip is damaged and a straight flight is not possible.

The little .22 is famous for ending up in strange places in the human body, when found.

One reason I place my bullets behind the shoulder in the lower center of the body area, to miss the shoulder bone and maybe clip the top of the heart, if the shot drops a little.

We all have days when we need to trim and cut away a little more damaged meat, than hoped for but the good thig is that
it was bagged !!

Enjoy.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

As for "brush busting", don't do it, even a heavy bullet is deflected just like a lighter bullet. If it ain't a clear shot don't take it.

Many decades ago, one of the gun rags did a fairly comprehensive test on "brush busting," and came to the same conclusion. In their summary, they did neglect to report one of their test cartridges, which WAS a reliable brush buster. I believe it was a .404 Jeffery, which is just short of the ballistics of a .416 Rigby. If you should decide to use one on game, you can save yourself some time by not looking for a spent bullet just under the skin on the far side.

 

[Univibe]

Study shooting forensics, autopsy reports, etc. In almost every shooting, something weird happens.

I saw the autopsy on a home invader shot in the face with a .357. Bullet goes in his cheek, under his left eye. It exited at a 90 degree angle out the right side of his neck.

I saw a husband shot by the wife with a .45 ACP Silvertip load. Bullet goes in the back near the left shoulder. It made nearly a 90 degree turn, and headed down and to the right, blowing out internal organs along the way.

Look at Lee Harvey Oswald's autopsy report. Ruby fired a 158 grain lead round nose, classic .38 spl. load. The one that everybody says is quite ineffective. That bullet goes into Oswald's chest, makes a similar nearly 90 degree turn, goes down and to the right, taking out Oswald's internal organs. He didn't have a chance.


Michael Brown, Ferguson MO: Officer is shooting LE-grade .40 JHPs. His next to last shot hits Brown in the right eyebrow. Bullet does not penetrate, but heads straight down at nearly 90 degrees, blows out eyeball, keeps going down, exits lower jaw.




Gunshots are quite unpredictable.

 

[6518John]

One of the many reasons I love this forum so much is you can get sound advice and help with any odd situation that you may encounter. I simply do not have the ballistics knowledge so many here have and I was very surprised by what happened.

I even questioned my son about having shot the deer again in the neck while it was down (I was there the whole time, but have read of time sort of standing still and one not even hearing gunshots in real world shootings and thought maybe that had happened to me in the excitement of the hunt. I read about Bill Jordan or someone he knew getting in a big gunfight and after it was over having a bulging front pocket. When asked, the gentleman stuffed all his brass in his pocket because he was a reloader and always saved his brass. But he had no idea he did it in a gun battle).

One of my dads friends was a meticulous reloader, firearms expert and law enforcement officer. He always told me something along the lines of little good comes from a bullet shooting through it's target whether in the field or on the street. So I have always liked the 7mm-08 because my son shoots it well and I have not had to track deer—it seems to drop them in their tracks.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts on this. And I add a picture.

 

[armadillo]

About 40 years ago, I shot a mule deer with that same Hornady 139 gr. bullet reloaded in a 7x57. I shot it in the shoulder from behind at a slight angle from about 50 yards. The deer dropped in its tracks.

Strangely, when I cleaned it, there was no blood in the abdominal cavity. When I got it back to camp and skinned it, I found that the bullet had the entered on the shoulder blade, turned and travelled up the neck where I found the bullet which had the nose bent almost 180 degrees like a hook.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Everybody has different preferences in bullet weights, but mine is for a heavy bullet. I see no reason to go light when hunting deer. I was probably influenced by my father who always shot deer with a 30-06 and 220g bullets. Never chased a single one in 40 years of hunting.

The only ricochets like you noted that I have ever seen are from light bullets. Mass carries forward, but my opinion is deflection potential increases as bullet weight goes down.

Never got big game hunting with light bullets at medium distances? It cannot be to reduce recoil, since you only should need one shot. Besides light bullets are easily deflected by the smallest twig, where heavy bullets can bust some brush and still be accurate enough to bring down a deer. My grandfather had a 35 Remington, Model 8 and bought the heaviest bullet they made, 200 grain if I recall. He considered it to be the ultimate brush gun.

Brush busting bullets are myth.